My problems with the whole 'born with it' argument: 1. It establishes a permanent victim-status for a whole lot of people. Like a disability almost. 'He can't help it if he likes wieners!' 'Her legs don't work and she shows up to school anyway!' 'She likes guys, and THAT'S NOT HER FAULT!!' It's useful for shaming bullies, which is worth doing I guess, but once you get out of high school all you're doing is arguing that you're powerless and you need to be protected. The opposite of a strong position. 2. It [i]can't[/i] be accurate for everybody -- there's gotta be at least one dude out there who struck out with the ladies so much that he tried being gay, and figured 'this is working I guess.' [i]That guy, in my mind, deserves just as much respect as everyone else[/i], but he wasn't 'born with it,' so he's not REALLY gay! He just made a [i]choice![/i] 3. It promotes this idea that conditions from birth can't be opposed -- BUT EVERYTHING ELSE TOTALLY CAN! Genetics are off-limits, but you should hate people who [i]choose[/i] to grow up in a christian house, or people who [i]choose[/i] to inherit lots of money from their parents, or people who [i]choose[/i] to be Muslim. Screw that. Nevermind for a moment that your 'nature' is bigger than your genetics (there are so many other factors that your genes are almost negligible) -- take a guy who woke up one day at age 45 and decided he was Buddhist from now on. I'd rather hate the person who never chose anything in their life -- who did [i]literally nothing but exist in the most comfortable way possible[/i]. When did genetic lotteries become more admirable than meaningful decisions? If someone chooses to be gay, they're a lot braver than the person who just started that way. 4. It's fatalistic. That kid has X gene, therefore he's gonna grow up to be a gay plumber and everyone will hate him and the psychological scars from that one thing in school will prevent him from succeeding and now he's basically a lost cause and isn't that sad? Screw that. Screw ALL of that. You can do anything you want to do, including porking other men when you've got the straight gene. It's like people have forgotten how to drive a car -- we got in and the wheels were pointing left, so I guess we're going left in circles today, right? NO! Take the wheel and [i]drive.[/i] 5. In this specific case, does it make sense? I mean..... we're talking about a gene that would prevent reproduction, up until the late 90s. how many billions of years of evolution does it theoretically take for that to select itself right out of the pool? If that's truly the only factor, then gay people only exist because for [i]literally billions of years[/i], social pressures have bullied them into screwing the opposite sex. I don't buy that. Probably some other stuff that I'm forgetting.