[quote=@Loud Angry Dead]That brings up something I've always had a bit of conflict with and that is the supposition that one is born gay. That would posit that gayness is genetic rather than a choice or even a lifestyle formed from psychological factors. That they literally are forced into a state of being gay just like I don't have any say in being genetically Asian.

So does that mean there is a genetic sequence that determines your sexuality?[/quote]
No, sexuality is how one manifests their feelings of arousal and erotic desires. These are pretty much 

[i]Sexual orientation[/i], independent of biological sex, gender identity, and sexual identity. Is, ultimately fluid, and ultimately the result of a combination of nature and nurture; there are probably gay genes that everyone's got different variations of, but how they manifest is based on your hormones, your environment and ultimately the person you become and what you like.

[quote=@Loud Angry Dead]That, in fact, it is an alterable condition given sufficient understanding of the genes and a method by which one could change it? How much is attributable to personal experience, environment, and psychological factors if it can be attributed to anything but genetics?

I keep hearing "They're just born that way" and that "they can't help who they're attracted to". I can't help but feel like that's a cop out; a way to avoid thinking too hard about what would cause a divergence from the breeding instinct that helps us choose our mates. I mean our brains are hard-wired with preconceptions that are sub-conscious. [/quote]
It is alterable-- it's fluid, it may change and vary as you change physically and intellectually. Maybe it won't though. It isn't conscious, it just relates to your state of being.

Of course, fluidity varies for different people and really so much is attributable to nurture as well as nature that, sure certain environmental stimuli + genetic tweaking might = X orientation. It isn't that no one is thinking about it-- it's that trying to change someone's sexual orientation for the sake of science is literally evil.

[quote=@Loud Angry Dead]Years of evolution and instincts born of breeding to survive have to account for something don't they?[/quote]
Not really. Breeding for the sake of breeding is dumb.[hr][quote=@mdk]1. It establishes a permanent victim-status for a whole lot of people. Like a disability almost. 'He can't help it if he likes wieners!' 'Her legs don't work and she shows up to school anyway!' 'She likes guys, and THAT'S NOT HER FAULT!!' It's useful for shaming bullies, which is worth doing I guess, but once you get out of high school all you're doing is arguing that you're powerless and you need to be protected. The opposite of a strong position.[/quote]
This implies that homosexuality is some kind of disfigurement. It isn't, like at all. She isn't some victim, she just likes pussy and can't really consciously change it. I guess she could try dick, but if she doesn't like it why would she ever do it ever? I think saying 

"I'm genderfluid and I like men and women and [i]you[/i] will never ever [i]ever[/i] be able to change that" is a much stronger position than "I guess I could be persuaded to choose one or the other, since it's something I consciously choose to be."

[quote=@mdk]2. It [i]can't[/i] be accurate for everybody -- there's gotta be at least one dude out there who struck out with the ladies so much that he tried being gay, and figured 'this is working I guess.' [i]That guy, in my mind, deserves just as much respect as everyone else[/i], but he wasn't 'born with it,' so he's not REALLY gay! He just made a [i]choice![/i][/quote]
If his first reaction after being rejected by women isn't to go hire a prostitute but instead to go fuck a guy he's very clearly gay.

[quote=@mdk]3. It promotes this idea that conditions from birth can't be opposed -- BUT EVERYTHING ELSE TOTALLY CAN! Genetics are off-limits, but you should hate people who [i]choose[/i] to grow up in a christian house, or people who [i]choose[/i] to inherit lots of money from their parents, or people who [i]choose[/i] to be Muslim. Screw that. Nevermind for a moment that your 'nature' is bigger than your genetics (there are so many other factors that your genes are almost negligible) -- take a guy who woke up one day at age 45 and decided he was Buddhist from now on. I'd rather hate the person who never chose anything in their life -- who did [i]literally nothing but exist in the most comfortable way possible[/i]. When did genetic lotteries become more admirable than meaningful decisions? If someone chooses to be gay, they're a lot braver than the person who just started that way.[/quote]
mdk you do know sexual attraction isn't really a conscious thing right?

Like a guy can choose to fuck a guy but if he isn't attracted to him then why would he do it and I'm sorry but that doesn't really make him all that brave to me

[quote=@mdk]-- BUT EVERYTHING ELSE TOTALLY CAN![/quote]Wait are you trying to tell me I could have chosen to be white and never have to deal with this stupid racism condition what the fuck I didn't get that option on my select screen

[quote=@mdk]4. It's fatalistic. That kid has X gene, therefore he's gonna grow up to be a gay plumber and everyone will hate him and the psychological scars from that one thing in school will prevent him from succeeding and now he's basically a lost cause and isn't that sad? Screw that. Screw ALL of that. You can do anything you want to do, including porking other men when you've got the straight gene. It's like people have forgotten how to drive a car -- we got in and the wheels were pointing left, so I guess we're going left in circles today, right? NO! Take the wheel and [i]drive.[/i][/quote]
It's not fatalistic-- it's just that you don't really have conscious control over it, that doesn't mean it's predetermined [i]at all,[/i] fam.

[quote=@mdk]5. In this specific case, does it make sense? I mean..... we're talking about a gene that would prevent reproduction, up until the late 90s. how many billions of years of evolution does it theoretically take for that to select itself right out of the pool? If that's truly the only factor, then gay people only exist because for [i]literally billions of years[/i], social pressures have bullied them into screwing the opposite sex. I don't buy that.[/quote]like what[hr][quote=@ASTA]Everything that makes you [i]you[/i] is locked tightly within your DNA. Your life experiences and the way you were reared have little to do with how you turn out.[/quote] 
You and I agree on not being dicks to people based on sexuality, but I disagree with you on this like Bakunin and Marx on states. [i]You[/i] are also your memories, your experiences, your culture, the things you learn, the things you don't learn-- you are just as much your DNA as you are the world and existence shaping your subjective perspective and being.[hr][quote=@Protagonist]As for my opinions on homosexuality, I think it works like this: Men and women are yang and yin, meant to balance each other. In a heterosexual romantic relationship, one balances the other spiritually.[/quote]
kek

[quote=@Protagonist]In a homosexual relationship, you have two yangs or two yins, which makes both people more spiritually unbalanced. Thus, homosexual romance can be considered a sort of anti-romance.[/quote]
okay I don't want to be rude but I feel like you don't actually understand the taijitu in relation to Chinese Dualism. It's all about opposites balancing, and men and women aren't opposites, they just have different reproductive parts. I feel a more accurate yin-yang relationship relationship would be like... a saint and a murderer or something, and it really wouldn't matter their genders.

[quote=@Protagonist]Likewise, there is no such thing as a "Same-Sex Marriage"[/quote] 
5-4 says there is such a thing