[quote=idlehands]
These grown men instigated the fights by trying to be hardasses with teenagers and then felt scared when the kids didn't cower. That they both, especially Dunn, took it upon themselves to stick their noses into situations where they had no business and then ended up using lethal force is a bigger issue to me than the color of their skin. Zimmerman fancied himself neighborhood watch, well that means watch not go up to someone and demand to see their papers. And Dunn...he was just an asshole who should have just ignored the damn music. Two kids dead because some men just have to feel like a big shot. Stand Your Ground shouldn't mean going up and starting trouble and then panicking and shooting someone because they don't do what you ask them to do.
[/quote]

Idle, Turt, please stop this shit with Zimmerman. The other case? Yeah, that sounds fucked up beyond belief, but Zimmerman vs Trayvon is a pretty clear case of self defense against lethal force.

The injuries sustained by Zimmerman, and the [i]lack[/i] of injuries to Trayvon paint a rather clear picture that Trayvon had mounted Zimmerman, and had punched him in the head at least once. You do know that a single punch to the head can kill right? You do know, and understand that by law, anyone mounting someone else in a fight, is considered to be using lethal force, right? By mounting Zimmerman, and punching down at his head, which was on the ground, Martin is amplifying the force of his strikes, and greatly increasing the chance of killing Zimmerman.

Don't believe me?
[url=http://www.gunnuts.net/2013/07/22/the-danger-of-fists/]
[url=http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls]

Just because Trayvon Martin did not have a "weapon", has utterly no bearing on the matter. He mounted Zimmerman, and punched him in head, more than once. Zimmermans testimony of how many times is circumstantial and irrelevant. He was punch in the head, while he was on the ground.

This is why Zimmerman was well within his right to return lethal force in kind.

Was Zimmerman wrong to pursue Trayvon? Yes. I will never argue that. But by the same fucking token, Trayvon was in the wrong for engaging in any kind of discussion with Zimmerman, which he easily could have avoided. He was more than capable enough of running back to the house he was staying at, and avoiding the whole damn situation altogether. Both parties made stupid, idiotic mistakes that lead to the unfortunate end. Besides all of that; none of this has any bearing on the fact that what Zimmerman did, was defend himself from Martin utilizing lethal force against him.

So please, stop trying to claim Zimmerman did anything other than defend his own life. Please stop ignoring the fact that Trayvon could have avoided this himself.

Now, can we bury this stupid case already?