[@Double Capybara] If accepting 2300 B.C.E. as the start of the Bronze Age (which is where we'd realistically be; at the very start) then numbers are actually even lower than towards the end. Memphis and Akkad both had around 35,000 people in 2250 B.C.E. and they were the largest cities in the region. So setting it at the end of the Bronze Age is still being generous from that perspective, though you are right in that the middle of the Bronze Age had much greater population sizes. I would contend that we are not in the middle of a glorious Bronze Age right now though, seeing as something like a bronze lance is considered extraordinary and is a rare sight. In any case, there's no need to argue too closely about the numbers given that we seem to be in agreement here. Armies of 50,000 are just too much. I had imagined the entire kingdom under Akthanos having less than 100,000 people, and the city of Vetros itself having maybe 30,000 or less. I would imagine that they are currently the most populous nation considering that they have been spared from the brunt of the various disasters to impact Galbar, are situated in a fertile river valley, have agriculture, and have been around for a while. If we decide to use Vetros as any metric by which to compare other regions and we also want to have larger populations, I suppose I could make Vetros more comparable to Uruk in size. [quote=@Muttonhawk] I am not overly bothered by the numbers right now. However, it's looking like those kinds of armies are fielded after a huge unification effort. Either via forming an empire or uniting loads of nomads over a long span of time.[/quote] For context, this is a feud that started between two clans and then embroiled a few more, and both sides have these massive armies. Even if we assume that these nomadic tribes can afford to have half their population in battle (basically every male that can fight and then some women too) it still implies that their numbers are huge. [quote] Over in Yorum, I'm currently working on city states having no more than several hundred to one or two thousand men in an army at most. That'll get bigger as we go if they unite, but proportional to the population of each one, it wouldn't make sense for it to be higher. [/quote] That's almost exactly how I envisioned army sizes in the Vetros area (and Ommok's kingdom, though the relative size of ogres makes this a poor comparison). I think you're doing it right, and therein lies the problem: [quote=An excerpt of our bickering]Cyclone: It makes the Rukbans have 10x the population of any other region Kho: then the other regions are not realistic[/quote] If we disregard the size of these Rukban armies and maintain small populations for other nations, it makes a noticeable skew that's something like a plot hole.