[quote=@mdk] As I've said though, [i]today[/i] in America, the weaponization of racism is the bigger and more serious threat. By far. What I'm arguing is that we've crossed a threshold -- we're not 'sifting through' the abuses to find the problems, we're so buried in abuses that we're simply dredging up something that looks almost real and [i]pretending[/i] so that we can collectively exploit it. Systemically, and not just when it comes to race (though that's certainly the most prone to producing actual violence as an outcome). This is [i]crazy stupid bad[/i] for us, as a population that live alongside one another, but we're doing it anyway because Drumpf I guess. (It's not Trump, it's virtue signalling, but that's another thread) [/quote] I dunno, I don't think that is the case to be honest. I'm just not convinced that that the abuse of the race card is so out of control compared to the potential shit that would be caused by aborting the taboo. Shit does happen, but it seems to be systematically contained. I mean, Donnie did get elected. The people who beat up that white kid in Chicago are being tried on a hate crime. Blue lives matter seems to have defeated the Black Lives. It's not like the race-card issue has completely overhauled the system to where these things can't happen. [quote=@Dark Wind] I'd also contend that there is no such existence of positive outcomes that directly or indirectly stem from anti-thought taboos established for the purpose of hopefully extinguishing returns of prejudicial practices to modern life. Not only that, anti-thought taboos have a tendency throughout history to be at the center of some of the most violent, murderous regimes and political groups of all time. [/quote] I disagree. I think the history of systematic racism speaks for itself. All those holocausts and genocides, that's what we are trying to avoid. I think it is important to remember that we are still the same species that committed every horror in our history. It's completely possible that even Western countries could commit pogroms again. It is true that taboos have been created in the past by evil regimes, but I don't think this means the creation of taboos are a slippery slope kind of thing. If a regime comes to power with a plan to commit systematic white genocide in a western country, not by the scary fear of pluralism thing white nationalists have, but by systematic violence, then I'll be proven wrong. [quote=@The Spectre] I think that Jontron was expressing his opinion and Destiny was just belittling him. And that Jontron needs to spend more time improving his debating skills in general (like Sky Williams). I don't think that he is a racist at all, just like Pewdiepie is not one as well. I just think that everyone just assumed that he was a racist because his views were different than the standard views, which we often see in our daily lives. The word racism/racist are losing their original meaning and being used as an emotional response. And as a way of derailing a debate or discussion. Just like the word nazism/nazi. [/quote] JonTron and Pewdiepie are two different situations though. Pewdiepie isn't a racist, he's just unfunny. JonTron actually insinuated some racist shit. I agree that we shouldn't let the word racism completely lose it's meaning, but that also means not going the other direction and thinking that racism requires explicit violence or slurs or whatever. Also [quote]I just think that everyone just assumed that he was a racist because his views were different than the standard views[/quote] when did the right wing get into post-modernism? i'm used to post modernism being something edgy left wing kids do. where the fuck this idea that it's not cool to call it racism, that it must be called a "non-standard" view come from? this is some weird shit. Is this the new political correctness? [quote] Legal immigration has not always been the problem unlike illegal immigration. There is a difference between an illegal immigrant and a legal immigrant. The difference is easy to notice if people are willing to open their eyes. A legal immigrant follows the pathway by living in America for three to five years, meet all the requirements, and pass the Naturalization Test. An illegal immigrant just has to cross over the Mexican-American border, overstay their visas, and other things that I cannot name at the moment. Those politicians and 'spouting bobbleheads' [b]hate illegal immigration not legal immigration.[/b] I do not know how disliking illegal immigration makes you an anti-immigration. I think that America should have the ability to counter illegal immigration not just blindly accept it because "we are the country of freedom" or "America is the land of immigrants so we have no choice but to accept them." And it isn't racist if you dislike illegal immigration and want to send them back so they have the opportunity to do it the legal way. [/quote] We do counter illegal immigration. This is political rhetoric more than anything, on both sides of the debate. Some places want to be able to sift through illegal immigrants so as to not cause unnecessary problems. I don't personally think that being against illegal immigration is an evil thing btw. I think it's a completely debatable subject that's been made stupid in the general discussion because both sides want to use it to gain political points. That being said, the arguments about illegal immigration shouldn't be white genocide or shit like that, because that's just dumb. We can talk about taxes and wages and shit like that, but when we get into racial demographic BS (back to JonTron now), well... that's racist. Does that make him a Nazi? No. That makes him a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing]Know-Nothing[/url]. But still a racist. Just because somebody is racist in that way doesn't make them evil. Personally I just think JonTron is a dumbass. But just because they are not evil doesn't mean we must with-hold the racism term, since doing so would drain the term of all meaning. Just because some people have abused to term doesn't mean that racism no longer is a term at all. i do have to say though... [quote]I do not know how disliking illegal immigration makes you an anti-immigration.[/quote] It's easy to see how the two could be conflated because they often use the same talking points. The modern illegal immigrant freak-out is a replay of a lot of immigrant freak-outs in our past. Honestly, the immigrant question is one of the most consistent in our history. I'm from old American blood, have multiple ancestors who fought on the correct side of the American Revolution, and I bet you that I have ancestors somewhere back there that used the same anti-immigrant talking points against not only JonTron's ancestors (possibly), but most certainly Trump's ancestors.