[quote=@Vilageidiotx] You are not going to find a simple dictionary definition for the same reason the dictionary can't teach you calculus. It's a limited medium to explain complex topics. [/quote] [@Vilageidiotx] Okay, that starting analogy shouldn't be important. (because I get what you're trying to say. It's not literal, But I still feel like bringing it up.) The dictionary DOES tell you what calculus is. It has a very specific definition, every person I ask "what calculus is" should be able to give me the same answer...a branch of mathematics. Racism, is a word that has hundreds of different meanings now, varying by person. Even if both have them seem complex. One will always have a correct answer in the end and the other doesn't seem like there is a correct answer. Given the current definition you're using that "everyone" is racist. [quote=@Vilageidiotx] I think you are looking at this too much like solid attributes, like you might see in a video game. The point I am trying to convey here is that tribal affiliation, or else discomfort of the great other, is an innately human trait. For people in uni-racial communities, other races will fulfill that role. If you live in a very white rural area for instance, a lot of your understanding of black people will come from news stories, media, stereotypes, and whatever, which filters out common information enough that you can end up with the wrong impression of black people. It's true that if you are in a multi-racial relationship, you probably aren't racist against that race in any big way. (Though you mention Hitler, and it is true he wasn't buddying up with Jews, the very very Anti-semetic H.P. Lovecraft had a Jewish wife. People are weird af). But even in a multi-racial society, misunderstandings happen on a small scale. [/quote] Not quite sure what that was suppose to mean, the solid attributes/video game part. But your point is, people that live in non-multi cultured backgrounds are more likely to believe in stereotypes and what have you. But ones that do live with different races as neighbors and friends and co-workers and such, will likely not have those same problems? But misunderstandings may take place. Okay, I agree. I chalk that up to education and ignorance and the misunderstandings mere flaws that makes humans, humans. They will happen in spite of their race, not because of it. (Because like you said, people are weird.) But I disagree that it will always have to do with racism and because people are racist no matter how much education and culture they learn from. https://www.quora.com/Which-country-has-the-highest-proportion-of-interracial-married-couples http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/06/04/pew.interracial.marriage/ Why is the racial divide getting bigger then? Or at least people feel and say that it is. When we have one of the highest amount of inner race relationships, and they have been on an incline... And so many people ARE living in multi cultured communities already... http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/americas-tipping-point-most-u-s-now-multicultural-says-group-n186206 https://www.translatemedia.com/us/blog-us/usa-now-multicultural/ (And if I may be politically incorrect for a moment. It always seems the people bringing these up as issues, are the ones that are privileged and themselves haven't absorbed any other cultures. I think projection accurately describes the people I see more often than not.) So, I ask again. It seems like racism shouldn't be such a big thing anymore...completely ignoring everyone having access to the internet now. And being able to have friends half across the world...and play tabletop simulator and voice chat with a girl from japan that moved to Canada and a guy in united arab emirates and become friends and play "Secret Hitler" together. (personal experience.) It just seems like a silly concept to me. Why bother being a racist troll when you can have friends from all around the world instead? It's easier than ever. Our generation, and Gen X are so far removed from anything that our forefathers did/or had to deal with...I think the further we go in history, the more ridiculous it is to presume we are stuck in the past when everything else has progressed so far... [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-develop-drug-that-could-cure-aids-israel-hiv-a7395871.html]Medicine,[/url] [url=https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/12/the-10-best-technology-advances-of-2016.html]Technology,[/url] List goes on, but we still have the same problem we did in the 50's? [url=https://mic.com/articles/30916/74-of-millennials-support-gay-marriage#.wMPJwNINj] Even the 90's?[/url] (where stupid shit like prop 8 was passed. Now 60 percent of americans overall support gay marriage. Which is agreeably way too low, but back to racism!) And we will still always be awful racist people even in the far future? [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRquPxdHNGE]Where, ya know, everything is sexist,racist and homophobic and you have to point it all out?[/url] (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) [quote=@Vilageidiotx] I think you are making too much of the everyone part tbh, so I'll try to be brief: Tribal affiliation, whatever that may be, is something innate in all of us that we all deal with. The problem with JonTron I feel is he took an issue we might sometimes struggle with and embraced it. This is the difference between innate racism and bad racism; he took his tribalism and began to thump his chest with it. That's how you cross the line. I don't think it is a moral failing if you want to feel a black girl's hair, or even if you have a sudden flicker of anxiousness when seeing a person of another race. What matters is that you work to control that innate tribalism. It's necessary in a mutli-racial society that you be able to do this. And JonTron failed that test, in this case by going on a racially charged tirade. [/quote] And no everyone being racist, if that's something you agree with, I don't care how small scale and levels of that. I have a big problem with that statement, if you are going on a case by case basis. And this is just about Jontron, and the video you posted earlier wasn't actually your opinion but you we're sharing something. Then I can let that go. If you don't think that video or that statement is accurate, you should of just smacked me across the head and told me so. Then I wouldn't be continuing under the impression that you do. :P https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/new-evidence-that-racism-isnt-natural/263785/ The tribal thing honestly sounds like a DNA/or born with it argument and are babies really racist, sexist and the like? I just, I don't think I ever can see the world in that light...(everything I looked up always goes back to that facial test, that has been debunked by everyone. Damn you google!) And I just don't know anyone on earth that "has a sudden flicker of anxiousness when seeing a person of another race." It sounds like a comedy skit. Maybe it's just where I live but that person would [b]die[/b] living here. Or as I pointed out, in many other places of the world too. <.< Also maybe it's the autistic in me, but the whole touching hair thing, people just like touching hair...supposedly feels good when others touch your hair. Just doesn't seem equal to the other example to me. Comes off as socially awkward vs innate racism. I guess we see the world in two different lights...and honestly I just saw JonTron stupidly going on a discussion with a baiter, took the bait and said things he didn't word right (and apologized for). But, I guess I can't really prove that one, can I? Vice versa. So I guess as far as JonTron goes. Much more can't be said there. [quote=@Vilageidiotx] I think what is laughed off is the idea that people use multi-racial connections to validate something racist they say or do. It's not the idea of having friends of another race is in itself funny, but rather that it's silly to say something like "Plenty of my friends are black, so I'm not racist, but why do these black people have to move into my neighborhood?" [/quote] My answer to that guy wouldn't be, "Your racist!" I'd just tell the bitch to move. Seriously though. I think most of time...(when not said ironically/when it isn't just made up, because I stand by the fact most racists don't actually have a whole lot of friends/especially diverse ones.) (imo) It's a legit defense, when people claim such things. A lot of "racist" things to say, often are sarcastic remarks usually said to friends or people in your circles, as an inside joke. And people outside their circles not understanding and instead of trying to, assume the worst. [quote=@Vilageidiotx] Just because you can't quantify the terms doesn't mean they don't mean anything. We know that racism has in the past been used to do some fucked up shit. We know there are still a minority of people who want to repeat that fucked up shit and are actively working for it. And we know the general population is not exactly good at keeping from getting swept up in doing fucked up shit. [/quote] Putting aside, how much racism levels mean and if it means anything to say something a little racist and very racist, when the result still implies you think your race is superior to another's. But I really don't think we're living in the past, but the present. And I really don't want to get into what races/racists are actually and presently causing the most damage, because I feel that would be going into the weeds. I feel the fact that racism is a taboo, sort of quells that fear...because [b]most[/b] taboos tend to stay that way. [quote=@Vilageidiotx] If that minority's rhetoric becomes socially acceptable, there is the threat that they will spread and violent shit will occur. [/quote] I don't think what your implying here, is what that sounds like you could be implying. So just a very quick policy question. Do you feel America needs hate speech laws? [quote=@Vilageidiotx] Violent, systematic racism is like a horrifying alcohol habit we once had in the past, and the taboo on racism is the strict AA program we are following to keep that horrifying shit from happening again. Sure, on the surface taking a small drink mind seem harmless, but there is a very real concern the first drink will lead us right back into that horrifying past. [/quote] "Taking a small drink mind seem harmless" *might (This isn't an attack. I hope you know that. Feel free to point out any mistakes I may make, if you see them. I encourage it actually. As a roleplayer, and someone who now writes. I feel like I can only get better as a writer, if I can make sure I'm articulating as effectively as possible. So if I say shit, that you don't understand, please let me know. Also, if you don't share the same mindset, will refrain from ever doing it in future. ^_^ Otherwise, I don't feel like I have much new to add here, sort of the same point previously made that past racism exists and we even today still have it subconsciously. [quote=@Vilageidiotx] Yeh, I think context matters. That's why I don't condemn pewdiepie (well, for that, I do condemn him for being a talentless hack, but that's another thing). JonTron wasn't joking around though, he really wanted them other races put in their place. [/quote] Okay then. Also 100% agree that PewDiePie's content is shit...like really bad. >.< [quote=@Vilageidiotx] Fairtax is just a consumption tax, isn't it? That falls mostly on the working classes too. The rich don't really consume in direct proportion to their earnings compared to the poor, so you'd just be looking at a massive jacking up of prices for common goods with the benefit mostly being that the rich make more money to invest abroad. If you try and tariff them into investing in the country, goods get even more expensive and the crisis grows. [/quote] Ya know what, I'll admit I know almost fucking nothing about taxes. So, I won't pretend to. XD But the fact the united states has one of the highest corpotate tax rates of almost every single country. Yet when you go by taxes in general, we aren't gouged in the slightest compared to everyone else...And we wonder why businesses want to leave elsewhere. (Sorry, this is rather off topic. XD) https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-income-tax-rates-around-world-2015/ http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally [quote=@Vilageidiotx] At this point, assuming the Syrian crisis has already peaked, it won't be our problem. We're way too far for Syrians to just happen on our doorstep. If any Syrians manage to cross the Atlantic in dinghy's, they fucking deserve citizenship. As it stands now though, we are dealing with the kinds of immigrants that can afford plane tickets. [/quote] It's an odd thing to assume, because nearly everything I look up about it, is saying it's consistently getting worse. (whether it be pleas, to offer "kindness" because more and more refugees needs places to stay. Or crime and murder rates skyrocketing because of said "kindness." unfolding.) We still have people wanting these to come to the U.S, it hasn't gone away. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/new-un-report-says-worlds-refugee-crisis-is-worse-than-anyone-expected/2015/06/17/a49c3fc0-14ff-11e5-8457-4b431bf7ed4c_story.html https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8663/germany-migrants-rape [quote=@Vilageidiotx] But we were talking about Mexicans. I think amnesty should be a case by case basis. I think deporting criminal aliens, and illegals caught doing other shit besides having just crossed the border, is perfectly fine. But I think those trying to make a life for themselves, for whom the process of kicking them out would be mostly pointless, should have a path toward citizenship so they don't end up in poverty. I don't just say this out of human interest, but also because I feel purposely exacerbating poverty to make a point is costly and stupid. [/quote] While looking things up. I do find it a little strange that the statements of illegal immigrants do actually work a bunch and aren't just lazy. But simultaneously aren't taking any american jobs...Is that a contradiction? Feels like one. (Apparently, most of them take up all the low wage jobs. Which doesn't really help the younger generations find work...) And I think many legal immigrants would probably disagree that kicking people out that didn't follow the rules they did wouldn't matter. ;P (Also I'd argue from all the countries their running away from, it's more their problem and not ours. :P) America doesn't really keep anyone in poverty, we're pretty much the only place where you can change your 'income class'. I don't think we're making poverty somehow worse by asking people to follow the proper procedures and become a part of the American melting pot. [quote=@Vilageidiotx] Also, be careful hating on the welfare system. Without that shit, we would have had a revolution before any of us were born. Welfare isn't just the safety net of individuals, it's the safety net of capitalism as a whole. There is a reason the majority of modern economists support social welfare policies. When the working class isn't stabilized, they start sharpening their knifes. Ask the Tsar. [/quote] I suppose I could disagree with you about welfare. (maybe should since not sure how well libertarians are suppose to like those.) But I mean I really don't, my mom used it, a long time ago when she was raising two girls alone going to college and working 2 jobs. I'm sure someone in your family does/did too. A lot of people now are on some kind of government program. I don't think people that are on government programs are automatically wrong in some way and I do support a welfare system. Just pointing out, it has several problems and it's often times abused. (I even have personal stories for that. ;D) [quote=@Vilageidiotx] That's because history is normalized but the future isn't. We've had much more politically divisive periods in our history. The current era is divisive, and will probably be one of the defining eras in American history, but we've had more aggressive periods. I think we're still behind the 1960's in terms of political divisiveness. Probably behind the 1930's. And waaaay, waaaaaaaay, waaaaaaaaaay behind [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_of_Charles_Sumner]the 1850's[/url]. [/quote] I guess to clarify when I say worse, I mean in my lifetime (as pointless as someone in the 20's to say that.) and more currently oppose to hundreds of years ago... [quote=@Vilageidiotx] And inter-generational conflict is just normal, because generations are not monoliths. For every hippy, there was a young man who volunteered to fight in Vietnam. For every young person in the labor movement, there was another young person scared shitless of Reds. And for every young man fighting under the American flag at Gettysburg, there was another young man fighting under the southern flag. [/quote] And to paraphrase someone else's statement, even back then the hippies we're fighting for some kind of rights. This is the first generation of people, where a large group are actually and actively fighting to have less rights for themselves...