[quote=Magic Magnum]
That's often the issue though. If a Physical fight does happen the school lacks witnesses for the incident usually.Friends who were present don't count, cause they're friends and count as a bias source. And usually in High School, those who do watch who aren't friends don't care to report it and see justice done. They just want to see a fight and then bail before a teacher breaks it up. So often you get left with a "He says, she says" situation, so even if it's a case of one kids a big trouble maker, and the other is a good kid the school often feels forced to punish both the same because they can't actually prove whose fault it is.
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Been there, done that. But I think it's still a stupid adult problem -- the adults making this determination not only don't know who did what first, they don't know the kids because they're desk jockeys that don't know the kids at all. I was attacked outright by this kid and put into weekend detention over it and I purely acted in self-defense. He didn't ever fuck with me again though, so it was entirely worth it. I did learn that a lot of bullies can talk their way out of trouble with a sufficiently stupid adult, and a lot of those stupid adults were school administrators, though. Teachers know what's up because they see the kids in the class every day, but they are limited in their powers. Murikin Edderkashun, y'awl.

Sometimes it's down to that whole thing where you gotta do the best you can and fight back, and I've had to do that several times. Just never, and I mean never ever, pre-arrange a fight with people. Fight spontaneously, if immediately threatened, but never set a time and a place for a fight. I learned the hard way that the other guys are scum, will bring their buddies and will bring weapons. So don't do that -- if they swing at you, do what you gotta do, but don't go arranging fights, and for god's sake don't try to fight fair (because really, fighting isn't fair if you aren't in a boxing ring and everything is fair game -- bullies argue differently, but why let them make up the rules that limit your responses?) One of the worst mistakes of my teenage life. :rolleyes

[quote=Hellis]On the subject of telling people that they need to man up or that we should allow more physical confrontation. You guys are striving backwards, future generations is what will change the world. We need to teach them that physical violence and the whole hyper masculinity bullshit is bad.
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I didn't make the world, I just live in it. If someone takes a swing at you, you can't really turn the other cheek very well. At that point, you do what you gotta do. I'm not telling people to man up and start a fight, I'm telling them to ignore the fuckers until they take a swing and [u]then finish that fight[/u]. Then again, I have a formal martial arts background and the teaching there tends to emphasize finding a way out of the conflict first and having the self-confidence to seek peace in avoidance of a fight. But it teaches you what to do in the event of the worst case scenario, which is one where you have to self-defend. I believe that self-defense is a fundamental right -- until the teacher or administrator that's supposed to break up the fights is there, you're on your own (and so is the bully, whether they know it or not.)

Sure, I ate a suspension once that way, but that's because the rules and the people enforcing them are stupid. I don't believe in standing there and letting them beat on me without a response until a teacher finishes their coffee and wank and finally gets around to breaking up the show just to avoid a 'disciplinary blemish' on my school record (ooh-ah, I still got into the University of Maryland).

FWIW, I did find friends during my first year of HS and never had to really deal with it again. We were too busy doing shit to really worry about outsiders -- we did concerts at the Woodlands Pavilion, were usually playing D&D or fixing my buddy's old car or just chilling in the backwoods of Texas. Part of my problem was that I was moving around a lot and always the new kid, but I also learned to tune out anyone that wasn't in my circle of friends and become pretty cliquish. I'm sure that sounds like a 'oh, so you weren't a very inclusive person' situation, but really? Who needs more than a few friends? You can be basically polite to people, 'fuck off, you're an extra in my reality paradigm' to assholes and worry mostly about your friends and family, because they're your people. I still maintain that attitude of divvying people into 'us and them' and I genuinely do not give a fuck about 'them.'