Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Silver Carrot
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Am I the only one who, even after assurances from users that it's not that big a leap as long as you can write well and develop your characters, still gets intimidated by the amount of pre-rp work you need to do, designing and planning your own arcs instead of letting them happen naturally via character interactions with other users like in casual, avoiding stepping on people's toes because they want their character to do their thing, ect.

Basically, any tips on how to cope with this or make a smoother transition would be nice because there are way more differences in attitudes and expectations than simply 'write better with some actual character development', and it's almost putting me off jumping into Advanced.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Terminal
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Sure.

The actual delineations between the Advanced and Casual Subforums are largely artificial because the distinction in the official posted standards is extremely faint and vague. According to the actual forum qualifications, Casual and Advanced subforum members are practically indistinguishable from one another. I have seen Casual subforum regulars who belong in Advanced and write exclusively at an Advanced level, and I have seen Advanced subforum regulars who are so awful they might only be fairly characterized as members of the mythical 'Free' subforum (it is something of a forum Urban Legend in case you were not aware).

In my opinion - and this is just that, so take it however you like - the shift between Casual and Advanced is not one or merit or talent, but of commitment and dedication to a given project. How much time and effort you are willing to spend writing, improving upon your writing, discussing a roleplay with other posters, collaborating, etcetera. That is the distinction I think should exist between the subforums - Casual should be for people for whom roleplay is just another hobby, and not even a primary one at that. Advanced should be for a writer for whom the process is more of a dedicated art and ongoing process.

Do not ask yourself whether you are good enough to write at an Advanced level, because the question is irrelevant due to how the subforums are set up. Ask yourself instead: How important is roleplaying to you personally? How much time and effort are you prepared to invest in it?

If the answer is "A lot," then go for it. Even if you are not wholly confident in your abilities, and even if you are in fact complete trash, simple dedication and practice over time will get you where you need to go - and the Advanced forum is probably the best place to get that experience.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Silver Carrot
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I've always wanted to try Advanced rp just to see if I can hang with the big boys, but given that recently I haven't had enough time/investment in several Casual RPs to even finish my CS, right now might not be the right time.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Shoryu Magami
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@Silver Carrot

To the best of my knowledge from their post right now and a previous one in another thread, @Terminal has pretty much the same attitude as I do regarding the way that the forums should be categorized as opposed to the way they are.

I consider myself an exclusively 'Advanced' forum role-player, and this has nothing at all to do with my writing level (which, frankly, I don't care about other people's opinions of for the most part), but rather the fact that I don't believe role-playing is something people should half-arse. It's a form of art that should be treated with passion and a community activity which should be treated with dedication -- very few things are more irritating to me than flaky players (or GMs) who just up and abandon projects or threads, or who don't make an active effort to give a project their best, regardless of their skill level (because generally speaking those who actually have dedication will improve; those who don't won't).

Unless you've got specific questions regarding things you're concerned might make it difficult for you to transition (which you're free to ask me -- I'll respond, since I only didn't respond to this before Terminal because I didn't know the thread existed), you should do as previously suggested and let your commitment level be the deciding factor.

If you'd like to, but currently don't have enough time, then perhaps wait until you've got that time.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Lady Absinthia
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@Silver Carrot Don't worry about the tags is what I would recommend. There are plenty of Rp's in the Casual section that can pass as Advanced, and may more that one would think should be shifted to Free. Don't worry about who you think you can hang with as far as skills go, if you really want just jump in. You can learn along the way and most GM's are open to Rpers wanting to stretch their skills. It's the try factor that matters. I've seen plenty of Rpers start off in an RP and who posted, in their words, like shit. I've seen those same people grow as they keep trying and learn from their mistakes. Thing is they took the first step.

I've taken a look at your posts, you aren't bad. If you want to grow to be more what you believe is an "Advanced" Rper, find a group that you think you can work with and join in to learn from when you are ready. There will always be a door open somewhere on the forum for those that want to learn and try something outside of their comfort zone.

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Silver Carrot
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Thanks for the edvice, everyone! I'll try again when I feel like I have the time and energy free to make this kind of commitment, because as Terminal said, rp is just a hobby to me right now and nothing more. I'll take everyone's advice of board as well, when I do try again.

I mean I've even stopped writing short stories in the past few months because I just...stopped feeling like it, but I'm going to get back into that in the new year.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Ellri
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to us, what we look for in prospective players (for our advanced RP) is primarily commitment and ability to plan. Sure, a certain level of grammar and lingual structure is nice, but its more important to consider what they achieve with their posts. Someone could (at least in theory) write a ten-page post with flawless grammar, yet achieve next to nothing for the story. Similarly, a lingually "weaker" player could achieve a lot with just a paragraph or three.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ArenaSnow
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May or may not be applicable; however, if you're doing well in high casual roleplays, you're already mostly there.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Gowi
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You should approach a RP you feel interested by and see if the GM appreciates your efforts; don’t let classists define how you look at enjoyable prospective projects. Ever.

I feel like this is a common concern. But no, you aren’t the only person who feels this way; I have many friends onsite who seem to still find the move to Advanced as this titanic and imposing thing, which I feel it is most definitely not. One could even argue that Advanced as a section isn’t even that rigid compared to how it was four-to-five years prior; back when RPG was a different site in terms of population and tone. So let me tell you something as a piece of reassurance— nobody is going to scoff at you and treat you unfairly for trying.

When I first began reading roleplays (because I do that) in the Advanced section I wasn’t that much younger than I am now; it was three or maybe four years ago. Perhaps it was fortunate it was in a roleplay that was inviting, active, and communicative— but I wasn’t someone who never planned ahead in most of their roleplaying experiences and only could give out a small amount of detail, diction, and depth. I could maybe throw out two to four small paragraphs. It wasn’t until I was surrounded with these writers in this Advanced game that my prose improved as I tried to keep up on a level that my peers… my co-writers were putting out. It was great, and it wouldn’t have done me any good to sit by in fear of not being good enough.

Sometimes you just have to get your feet wet.

For these last few years I’ve used a friend’s personal definition of what Advanced is and represents, you may remember it from me posting it in the roleplay you almost joined that I am a semi-active participant in.

"Advanced roleplaying should focus on developing interesting and complex characters that become part of plot-lines which catch the imagination and inspire the writer behind them to exercise creativity. It is mature, humorous, imaginative, tragic, terrifying, passionate, and rife with descriptive language and characters with real personality and relatable cares. Quality posting is far better than needless novels, yet one should never neglect detail when one feels the need. However, while word and paragraph requirements ought to be unnecessary, single paragraphs cannot contain enough detail to suffice."

Notice key phrases I’ve outlined with the olive green.

As an advanced roleplayer (when I feel the inspiration) and GM I can tell you that I don’t expect people to write a 1,600 word long post— I don’t even in the cases I’m writing longer posts expect players to match it. I just expect them to be descriptive, imaginative, dedicated, and cooperative. You don’t need to pull out a thesaurus. Advanced is more about depth than it is quantity; or at least it is to me. I suppose another question is how earnest and passionate are you about your hobby? Is this just passing fluff or do you have fun playing off people and new worlds in a bigger scheme? Advanced roleplayers generally only want to make sure that their peers care like they do about a project.

There are more specific answers I could give if needed, but I suppose that’s the gist of advice/thoughts on the subject from my end.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Silver Carrot
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@Ellri

I don't even plan short stories. I've never once written something I didn't improvise on the spot. It's something I need to work on because I do wish to write another novel one day.

@ArenaSnow

In my current experience, not even close. Every single casual rp I join, I have absolutely no idea what my character's even doing to do or how they'll develop until like ten posts in.

@Gowi

I am very passionate about this hobby, but recently I've had less 100% free time (time where you're not expecting to get called away, and have nothing else on your mind that you should be doing) and less drive to commit to things. I think it's just the holidays, though. I think (hope) I'll get better after the new year, because I have wanted to try advanced for the longest time. It's been my eventual goal on this site for literally about three years now.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ArenaSnow
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@ArenaSnow

In my current experience, not even close. Every single casual rp I join, I have absolutely no idea what my character's even doing to do or how they'll develop until like ten posts in.


Can you make it seem natural and does the story flow regardless?

It's bad if you're holding back the story and people are calling you out, but if you can put out a decent length post that pushes your character through to do things, look like you know what you're doing even if you aren't (I consider myself decent at that) and end up finding your footing, that's fine.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Silver Carrot
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@ArenaSnow Somehow, yes. It happens, so I'm definitely thinking about it. I just have a hard time putting the things in my head into words, or a concrete chain of events sometimes.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ArenaSnow
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@ArenaSnow Somehow, yes. It happens, so I'm definitely thinking about it. I just have a hard time putting the things in my head into words, or a concrete chain of events sometimes.


Story of my worldbuilding ;P

It all comes so nicely in my head until it fails to turn into more than 3 words before I go "oops"... no reason. Just "oops. Not feeling it/that idea sucked/I have 3000 other things to do, why am I here".

You could try and dip into something "low advanced", possibly something that isn't way too large, but big enough to bite into. Not necessarily one where people like making massive walls of detail. In other words, "low advanced" rather than "high advanced" that certain roleplays are famous for, if such terms exist.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Ellri
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The best thing to see with a well-laid plan is for one of your characters to waltz in and wreak havoc, rendering it utterly useless and irrelevant. Though after spending a decent amount of time writing from the perspective of a specific character, you usually learn some about what will and will not work for him/her/it.

We've learned never to plan out everything a character should do... they tend not to cooperate like that. what we plan is settings like "who will (s)he encounter?" "Where will the encounter happen?" etc.

For our RPs, we usually spend far longer than most on characters, both our own and our players' characters to make sure they are up to par.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Gowi
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The best thing to see with a well-laid plan is for one of your characters to waltz in and wreak havoc, rendering it utterly useless and irrelevant.

No.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Ellri
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@Gowi You don't enjoy your own characters deciding for themselves what they want to do?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Gowi
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@Gowi You don't enjoy your own characters deciding for themselves what they want to do?

Yes, I do.

However, I don’t exactly enjoy another writer to suddenly decide to “waltz in and wreak havoc” without communication. That was what I was inferring.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Ellri
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Oh. Those two are very different things indeed.

We did not mean others wandering in and ruining plans... Far too often, such means that they expect your character to behave a certain way that is entirely contrary to how your character would behave naturally.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Supermaxx
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Havoc for havoc's sake is almost always terrible. And there are very few interactions where involving one's self without giving prior warning to another player is actually beneficial. However, when the stars align, having someone throw a well written, entirely logical and good curveball is one of my favorite parts about RPing. A plot twist that's actually good is amazing fun.
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