[quote]Wow, I feel [b]really[/b] bad not giving this a longer/more detailed response considering how much time and effort seemed to come into this and how well thought out and explained the points are. But I simply can't find anything to pull out and disagree with or debate with. I'm almost 100% agreement with what you've said here. :)
I would ask about self defense though, if say you're being beat up like crazy is it appropriate to fight back enough to remove yourself from the situation? Or is there is still a better way to protect yourself?[/quote]

I usually go by the idea that violence is the tool of a weak person. Some say the same with swearing, or sarcasm, or fallacies (though directed at arguments there), but yeah, I see this as all coming into the same realm. We act take violence as a primal drive and therefore inescapable -- almost inevitable to return, I suppose. However, it's really not. In a society where you're free to actually share your insights yet are taught approach situations empathetically (or at least sympathetically) there is simply no need for violence between members. We see violence when frustration cannot be expressed. When people are so oppressed that their voices are stifled. The more open venues for expression we have, the less likely people will fall into more basic responses. In terms of the criminally violent, they're obviously opting out and should be given that out. The mentally ill obviously need care and attention. My whole point here I guess is a bit of summary, [B]violence is so often a symptom and we would better invest ourselves by exploring the contributing factors[/B].

For right now since we have to deal with a system a lot less interested in caring about others, we do have to deal with how to respond personally. In my experiences being targeted by potentially violence behaviour I played the cards I had. First, I forced those targeting me to engage with me in a public place, or not at all. Second, I gave those who cared at some level a heads up of what was going on. Third, I grabbed a knife. Finally, I decided against that knife. My aggressively vigilant fans bided their time for a while, but ended up cornering me in our lunch hall, well, more off the side of our lunch hall for something feigning solitude. Public enough though, I responded their heads up by getting loud. No one wouldn't know what was going on. Those who did give a shit and I'd told would collect, perhaps not to stop the situation immediately, but at least to see that my head was not beaten in without some help. I left the knife behind, because I'm human. Principles have a way of tarnishing just as the first blow reminds you what pain feels like and the meekest can become the most sadistic. For me the situation concluded after a good share of people collected, having heard my narrative of what was happening as I shouted it, and this crowd collectively told them 'to leave me alone'. They didn't really step in, but they all spoke up, and that pretty much ended things for me. I think with some energy others can find their own non-violent solutions to respond to a threats too. Sometimes foresight isn't allotted of course, and in those times I would urge anyone to deeply consider their next step. We are who we are in our worst moments, those are no less true to our identity than who we are when others are watching. So if we gladly respond with violence and happily subscribe to this thought beforehand, say on this forum, I'd seriously question anyone who spends more breath supporting self-defence and violence as an unavoidable reality rather than trying to change how people think about bullying. 

Why do people bully? I can say the fact that many still see such as 'kids just messing around' is in no way helping the matter. Yeah, some kid could just be trying to assert dominance. Probably not that different from those stroking their e--peen here in the OT, but you don't solve that by beating them down when they misstep. You don't use a bullies poor action as an acceptable invitation for your own violence. Whether you're being abused physically, mentally, or verbally, that shit stays with you and all are equally serious. Unfortunately, I like many of you have suffered from the many forms of abuse, all violent at the core, and if I had the chance to respond to my abusers I wouldn't do so using the same tactics they did. I'd straight up show them what they're doing to me, others, and themselves. Nothing is too good to be true -- just requires some work, that's all. 

[quote=Brovo]
The topic is quite literally about physical abuse as said by you, why do you keep bringing up verbal abuse? Why would you even put this on the same plane of existence as parents beating the shit out of their children. [B]One is temporary frustration that everyone goes through in life and the vast majority come out of A-okay. The other leaves psychological and physical scars that live with you for the rest of your fucking life.[/B] 

I'm sorry, which is which? I don't mean to come out sarcastic, but honestly, bullying and using violence as a tool against children are very related. There's a reason why child psychologists steer parents away from using violence in their parenting tool kit, that behaviour doesn't just fall away. When we use violence against our children, those children learn that undesirable behaviour should be fixed with violence. Some become insecure, or get the foundation for this 'might is right' attitude, but hey, at least they get they learn violence is the answer, right? All sarcasm aside, this establishes pretty fertile soil to grow a bully. While there are most definitely other contributing factors that lead to youth feeling they must physically dominate others for power, we should begin with how we parent. While we see how we parent, we should also validate all forms of abuse and open those victims up to counselling. At this bottom of this post I've included a personal experience about the link between parental abuse and bullying. Not necessary to read, but there, at your pleasure.

[quote]This is like comparing killing a cow for food to murdering people and cannibalizing their corpses.[/quote]

Verbal Abuse is like killing a cow for food, while a parent beating the shit out of their child is like murdering people and cannibalizing their corpses. Your words, is that right? I know you know that's an extreme example, but, isn't is also a pretty skewed one too? Verbal abuse is a great way to destroy a person's confidence, self-esteem, and perception of what's what in the world. Verbal abuse can transform a strong kid into a kid who needs to find strength where they can, whether it's beating another up or community service, we don't know. They're both abuse, they're both shitty practices as a human being. They aren't as different from slaughtering livestock to slaughtering humans.

[hider=PersonalEx]My paternal grandfather served in Viet Nam and came home intensified. In my family service goes with the name, my great-father having been a World World 2 paratrooper, my great uncle a colonel having seen several conflicts, and more recently, my cousin having held the rank of Sergeant Major of the Army (Tilley) -- basically, we know that war can change a person. But my grandfather wasn't just different, he was extremely precise in his expectations of his family. Meanwhile, his sons were not the most orderly boys, and where his response had once been to chastise and spank, his service had modified his responses. Grandpa Harris took more violent action. He placed endless blame on my grandfather for failing their family, beat his elder son my father with various objects, and put my uncle in the hospital when the youth answered violence 'with lip'. This went on a while until my grandfather abandoned his family. Subsequently my father, uncle, and grandmother all sought counselling over the coming years. My father suffered ticks for a long time, my grandmother has extremely self-esteem to this day, and my uncle started bullying kids early on. Oh, sorry, [I]bullying[/I] is more appropriate. He sought kids out who hassled others, and filled up with righteous vengeance, he broke noses, collar bones, and one kids jaw. This happened over the years, of course. The latter, the jaw, became assault. Today everyone's more-or-less found themselves in a stable place. My father and uncle are in their forties, mostly past the worst of what the abuse put them through, but only after years of counselling.

Basically, yeah, there are ties between parental abuse and bullying. Bullying is fed by many issues, and we should find them all in order to engage with them, child abuse among them. 
[/hider]