[quote=Tydosius] I just would like to point out that you have not 'illuminated' me to anything. Aspergers is just more specific than 'on the autism spectrum'. [/quote] ... No, Asbergers [i]isn't[/i], because it no longer exists as a medical disorder. At all. My suggestion is if you've been diagnosed with it, or if anyone you know has been, to go to a therapist and get updated with a better, more precise definition than Asbergers. Hell, Google it if you like, it's been discontinued since 2013, so it's been understandable recent. [b]*Attempting to offer warm and friendly advice as someone who excels at neither of these traits, please don't take it the wrong way*[/b] Now for the person who is utterly clueless... Cuz' I got nothing against you Tydosius. [quote=Halo]Brovo, don't be a colossal dickweed.[/quote] Nice opener, glad to see you like to keep discussions civilized and understand that the way to create an equitable and amicable environment for such a discussion is to take personal potshots displaying your own emotional weakness and hinting that everything else following will likely be a rant about how I know nothing about things that have affected the [b]entirety of my life and every thought I've ever had[/b], eh'? Well, this should be fun anyway, continue. [quote=Halo]Okay, we know, you've had a hard time as a result of your own experiences with mental illness, and people faking it or trivialising it only make things a million times harder. You know that I know that because I wrote a whole freaking article on public misconceptions of mental illness and used you as a source, remember?[/quote] Yes I remember, I also remember a few months later when you shared it with me over Skype I think it was, and I noted that it was highly one sided and biased, to the point where I couldn't really... Support it as authentic. You assured me it was for a school newspaper thing and I rolled with it figuring that if school newspapers were anything like real newspapers then bias had to be flooding out of every page or the article would be rejected. [quote=Halo]Trust me, I get it. I've been there myself, actually.But what you have to remember is that [mental disorder claim].[/quote] You're right, which is why I own a copy of the DSM. Albeit one that needs to get updated to the newest form that discards Asbergers. I also make sure to coincide my personal research with other people from time to time to make sure I'm not going off tangentially. I do this because I want to understand these things. Am I an expect? Fuck no. Do I understand the basics? Fuck yeah. For example: In general practice, you only diagnose someone with one disorder under each family of disorders. A family is a grouping of disorders with a similar premise: Depressive disorders, psychosis disorders, so on. Some disorders cross families, some are pure families, some are more specific, others are more broad. The reason why you only diagnose someone with one is because often times the symptoms for them are so similar that someone with bipolar would [b]always[/b] also be diagnosed with depression, despite the fact that everything depression is, also falls under bipolar. So now imagine my reaction when I see two social disorders, [i]three[/i] depressive disorders, a physical disorders, [i]and[/i] 2+ psychotic disorders all in one. Not impressed. However, later on in this thread, I make sure to try and cool things, explain that I wasn't personally attacking him but was skeptical because I have to be, and things cooled off. Then you came in. Tell me, does that white horse chaff underneath your thighs? [quote=Halo]You don't have a freaking clue who Wayne is, what doctors he's seen, what hospitals he's been to, or anything else.[/quote] Mentioned that too, but hey, not everyone can be bothered to read the whole thread, I understand. :gray [quote=Halo]Maybe it doesn't seem believable within the realms of your own experiences, but honestly, just as equally someone who's never experienced a disorder could call bullshit on stuff you've said about your experiences.[/quote] And they would be fully right to do so. I'm surprised more people don't. More people [b]should[/b]. Though I want you to note something, while I admit what family of disorders mine is located in (psychosis), I never reveal the specific disorder. Not in Skype, not in Steam, not here on RPG. Nowhere. I mention I have one but I don't ask for pity and I don't preface every damned sentence with "well in my experience as a psychopath..." Because that sets up a false throne of authority. I did that in Skype for a while until someone pointed it out to me and I realized the error in my methodology. I'm by no means perfect but I will call bullshit when I see it on this topic. So far as I'm aware, Wayne's already attempting to figure out what exactly he or she has. They fully admitted later on in this thread [b]they don't even know what disorders they actually have[/b]. That is a humongous problem, for Wayne, to not know, and so far as I'm aware, Wayne is attempting to figure that out now. So mission successful. [quote=Halo]You aren't in a position to pass judgement on everyone else who has any sort of connection to mental illness just because you have experience with it too.[/quote] Uhh... Yes I am. Technically anyone can pass judgement over anyone else over anything they want, free speech kind of ensures that. Law 101 here. :hehe [quote=Halo]You are limited and locked within your own personal experiences just like anyone else.[/quote] Yes I am, and I've admitted that, but again, the thread's whole two pages might be a bit too much for you, and I apologize. [quote=Halo]Maybe you're right about Wayne's diagnoses not matching up with the way it should be diagnosed, I wouldn't know - but holy shit, you must be lucky as hell in your experience with mental health professionals and doctors if you think they always have actual competency and know the 'rules'.[/quote] Not really all that lucky. Most do actually know what they're doing. If you want to pull out statisti-- [quote=Halo]I'd bust out some statistics about how many wrong diagnoses are made annually or whatever, but honestly, I don't think I need to - it's a well-known issue that mental health treatment, even in the plushy Western countries most of us live in here on RPG, is still often pretty appalling.[/quote] [b]For things like ADHD and Asbergers because they're too fucking broad[/b], which is why Asbergers no longer exists and ADHD is getting curtailed and reworked over time. It's an evolving science, like every other science, and it only gets more effective with each DSM, not less effective! It is Hollywood movie bullshit that scaremongers this stuff! Not to mention, psychological disorders are really bloody hard to nail down. Especially when you have people claiming to be things they aren't in the tens of thousands. Look up Headmates for just one example of how utterly insensitive and disgusting this shit is. It literally drowns out the voices of those rational people who have disorders and are just trying to get by in life. I pointed this stuff out to Wayne because he was either faking it or didn't have a clue about what was affecting his life. Either way, that's very, very detrimental to himself, and to everyone around him. [b]I was trying to help him you ignoramus[/b], and I was doing so by being skeptical. Now are you going to continue to comment on mental disorders--the very thing you admit having zero experience on? [quote=Halo]And with the clusterfuck of different diagnoses and conflicting opinions I've seen some people get caught up in, it wouldn't surprise me if some people didn't know what the hell was on the official record anymore.[/quote] Except that, you know, there's an official record with your local therapist. All you have to do is walk in and [i]ask[/i]. If they don't have it for some reason they have a series of basic tests and interviews they can do to help clarify whatever spew of diagnosis you have. [quote=Halo]But y'know what - let's just assume you're right. So what?[/quote] It detrimentally affects everyone involved on a personal and psychological level, and on a professional level. I already stated how absolutely damaging this is: People will look at Wayne (presuming Wayne is faking) and go "wow! You have like five disorders and you're doing perfectly okay! Why can't Brovo and Gwazi who each only have one disorder be normal?!" And that's assuming the best case scenario. I have to hide my shit in real life. If I didn't, I would never be employed anywhere. Nobody would hire me because of the lack of information out there, because of the fear mongering. [quote=Halo]Calling people out on it, whether they are actually lying or not, helps . It accomplishes nothing.[/quote] It helped Wayne suddenly fridge horror discover they have no fucking clue what it is they have. Which means now they can go and get an actual, specific diagnosis, and get the appropriate psychological help that they're in need of. It also served to dispel myths and bullshit that others were readily buying into. So it actually accomplished quite a bit. It helped Wayne. It made me feel better. It helped others in understanding what mental disorders actually are. [quote=Halo]You have no way of disproving what they've said, and it comes down to a bitchfight between the two of you, your word against theirs. It proves nothing. In fact, all it does is make people with genuine issues afraid to discuss them, in case they're actually persecuted by their own kind who don't believe them.[/quote] Oh fuck no. I know exactly how those of "my own kind" work. Also, did you seriously just use that term? Do you have any idea how utterly dehumanizing that term can really be for some people? No? Didn't think so. You wanna know how those of my own kind work? They go to work. They get paid. They go home. They struggle with their respective disorder. They move on with life as best as they can. They don't want to be known as "that psychotic guy" or "that one guy with ADHD". They want to be just known as "thomas" or "jeremy". If they bring up their disorder at any point it's in private with a few friends. If they have a giant "coming out of the closet" type thread, it'll be just that--a coming out of the closet, not a casual mentioning of their disorder, leave alone five of them! O.o [quote=Halo]You see a similar phenomenon in "nerdism", so to speak.[/quote] Oh my god please tell me you aren't comparing nerd culture to [i]mental disorders[/i]. [quote=Halo]Geek culture is so fucking brutal to people who they consider "posers" or not "real" geeks that it massively deters people from openly and genuinely enjoying "geeky" things and showing an interest.[/quote] [i]... Why would you eve compare an optional culture to a non-optional thing that detrimentally affects a person's life[/i]. [quote=Halo]Another example: a girl I knew posted something up on Facebook condemning others for self-harming just for attention, which detracted from the seriousness of people who "genuinely" had a problem - completely fucking oblivious to the fact that half the reason harmers are so afraid to be open about it is because of the fear of being labelled "fakers" or "attention seekers", and that her doing that was only making life more difficult for people with those issues.[/quote] No, she was doing the right thing. There are way too many people who fake suicide or fake self-harm. To the point that when someone real comes along who will actually do it, the general response from the rest of the Internet or the general public is "meh whatever". Only after they've done it do people go "OH GOD I WISH I COULD HAVE SEEN THIS COMING!" The same applies to mental disorders. The Isle shooter for example had obvious mental problems but nobody addressed it. Why? Because why bother, he was probably doing it for attention, all those videos about hating girls and all. [quote=Halo]You're doing the exact same thing here. Regardless of whether you're right about Wayne or not, busting everybody who's story doesn't pass your freaking arbitrary mental authentication checklist just means people feel fucking petrified of ever coming out and speaking about their issues in case they don't pass your little test, and end up being rejected and abused by those who should have been likeminded and supportive.[/quote] Coming from someone who has utterly no experience with mental disorders who is now claiming to know exactly how everyone with mental disorders wants to be treated. Good job, you keep that up. :gray In all seriousness though, I don't really actually have high expectations for mental disorders. If Wayne claimed just one and then didn't make up a big story about it but just went "yeah I have X, and I don't like talking about it, but I'd like to know what people think of it in characters in RP's" I'd have been totally chill with that. Or, hell, if Wayne has no disorders and was curious about it, I'd have been more than happy to explain it to the best of my limited capacity. The story that came up was the equivalent of someone claiming they are an astronaut special forces corporate business executive and nigerian prince willing to offer you five million dollars if you just email him your credit card information. I can say that, confidently, as someone who has had to live in the system for [i]most of his life[/i]. Wayne may have simply written it horrible. Either way, it was worth being skeptical about. [quote=Halo]This is a personal issue for you. I know that. But you're an intelligent guy; don't let it cloud your judgement. Think about what you're saying and what it means in the wider context, just as you're angry at those who fake illnesses for attention for the wider repercussions they cause. Anyway, despite my rant, I know you guys resolved your differences and whatever and don't think further argument is conducive to the discussion at hand, which is about RPing. I just felt it was important to note. [/quote] Well congrats. You brought it back up anyway to spend your first line throwing off insults and then attempting to explain to me that I know nothing, then corroborating that with completely inane examples which only display your complete lack of awareness on the field of mental disorders beyond halfwit statistics often done by those with political interests and personal biases. The truth of it is this: Yes I'm not a psychiatrist. Yes, Wayne could totally be right despite admitting later on they had no idea what it is they had. And, yes, I could be making a total ass of myself, but being skeptical is the right choice here, it's what I generally encourage. Ask questions. Try to understand. When something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. I wasn't doing this to be cruel, I was doing this to be informative, to try and help Wayne and honestly from the sounds of it I succeeded. The same goes for everyone else in this thread. Just... Trust me on this one. Please.