Here's a short couple of PMs from Brovo and myself. His first comment is about what I said at the top of my last post.

[quote=Brovo]

Ah, ad hominem based on personal preferences. [i]Stay classy[/i].

In all seriousness though, I figure I should give some background: I've repeatedly told Gwazi in the past not to fire these types of loaded questions, because they only lead to offense and flame wars, and because they go nowhere. I also know, in detail, his history with religion. This is purely personal, it has nothing to do with philosophy or logic. This is a forum about , the occasional discussion about religion is fine, hell even talk about it or inquire about it or set up an equalized debate or so on, but one does not start an equalized debate by asking the opposing side if they would all be flagrant rapists if what they believed wasn't true.

I mean really. Could you imagine someone walking up to you and starting off by saying "as a Christian I believe that unless you secretly believe in God, you must be a flagrant pedophile rapist." Would you construe that as any sort of start to a civil debate?... Of course not. Gwazi isn't here to debate, Gwazi is here to reinforce his own sense of belief by attempting to tear down the beliefs of others and start fights, and it comes from his past with religion. This happens to a lot of people who leave religion initially and some don't get past this stage: The sense of belonging and sense of purpose one has with religion is lost without it for a while, kind of like... Jumping off a ship into the sea. You eventually swim to an island, but while you're in the sea, it's a very depressing place.

You don't create civility through attacks on personal beliefs. Most importantly: Thunderf00t's targets, or Richard Dawkin's targets tend to be the types of people that are either extremist zealots and/or openly damaging society with their beliefs. Gwazi is targeting anyone who happens to believe in God, absolutely without any discrimination between those who simply believe and go about their daily lives as decent people who don't proselytize others, and the extremists he ran away from.

Essentially speaking: He became the very thing he hates so very much, a fundamentalist. And he's so blind with that hate that he starts fights and asks such insanely loaded questions that could only be construed as offensive by anyone on the opposing side just to fuel his own reasoning: There must be loads of Christians on RPG with crazy loony toons beliefs! Look, they're all angry at his totally credible claim about rape! (Even though, I might add, half of his opening statement was .)

There. Clarified a bit? I'm rough with him because it's the only way to get it through his skull: That being intellectually dishonest and asking a ridiculous question which you then answer for the opposition, and declaring victory, ... That's just... Yeah. Straight up dishonest to try and "win." That's not right. As an atheist he shouldn't be doing that kind of thing if he seriously hopes to seek out a life led by reasonable skepticism and not boogeymen.
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[quote=Imperfectionist]
I got all of this already from the "thesis" I asked for (and he provided graciously), and said as much in my reply to it. I am sad for Gwazi, because he has obviously never been part of a truly supportive, moral and loving community, and his childhood was obviously filled with negativity and self-doubt. That [i]sucks[/i], and I have been in a very similar position, so I have at least a small taste of where his mind is at this point in his life.

My response to his flawed question was not "lolz :gray Gwazi uses [i]double logical fallacies[/i] to prove his points! What a dumbass :hehe", which is the only way my flawed perception can take the comment that you made.

It was "here's a better way to think about the point I believe in his heart Gwazi wants to make." Being smug and making already pigheaded people [i]more[/i] stubborn and [i]more[/i] defensive... :( Doesn't help anything. And I said as much.

EDIT: May I post this in the thread? A clarification would be useful for anyone reading.
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[quote=Brovo]
Except he doesn't learn. I've tried. He added me on Steam and we talked, I tried to help him and teach him and be gentle, and he learned absolutely nothing. [B]You can't teach people who don't want to learn[/b], and it's blatantly obvious when he starts with loaded questions like that. He doesn't want to. Not from you, or me.

Also, I didn't call him a dumbass, he tried to state that his point was not a logical fallacy nor intellectually dishonest so I bluntly pointed it out to him. If you interpreted the smileys as being smug and mean, I apologize, that was not their intended meaning, I usually use smileys to indicate a light of heart emotional state. If I make a dreadfully serious point (like I am now) I state it as such.

... But with Gwazi, I already know he's... Not going to bother to learn, because he hasn't for the past two [b]years[/b], so... :hehe

EDIT

Go ahead, but in advance if that stuff gets reported, I'm not going to be held liable for it. :p
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