[quote=So Boerd]
It is established fact that the rebels had a BUK, and they have Russians who can train them. Furthermore they bragged about shooting a Ukrainian plane down within 10 minutes of the flight going down and subsequently deleted it. The seperatists or their handlers did it
[/quote]

None of the claims have been corroborated and because neither side would agree to anything to let an investigation begin by now any substantial evidence is gone so it will be near impossible to prove if it was Russian soldiers in Ukraine or Ukrainian soldiers.