[quote=@Dinh AaronMk] The thing with Japan in the mid-late 19th century was that they had become ass backwards in a lot of areas. They didn't progress in the same way as the rest of Europe and by the time of the late Qing they were pretty stuck in their conservative ways. They tried to make some efforts but it was ultimately rather lost and rather late. The Empire had lost several wars aimed at forcing China to open up several key ports they wanted to keep closed, which was a humiliation to the Manchu court in Peking. So in the non-fictional world they had a strained concept of the West when the European powers and Japan were carving up their Empire for their sphere of influences. Hell, at this time many Chinese units would still be using crossbows they're that far behind, never mind using modern rifles or muskets. They may have had the most effective bureaucracy and most advancement, but that was all well in the past. Folks like Cixi were the final nail in the coffin in a China strained with humiliation from several wars over ports and already carved up by outside interference. Sun Yet-Sen probably isn't a factor yet though, so they got that going for them. And believe me, China being destroyed by the tiny island nation that is Japan took the rest of the world by shock too. [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/JapanPunch29September1894.jpg[/img] Though that was 1890. Any political commentators in China might say the Mandate of Heaven was on its way out for the Aisin-Gioro clan. Then promptly get their heads lobbed off. [/quote] Did you intend to write China at the top there? You put Japan then went on about China.