[quote=@Zarkun] As I've actually done the needle thing before, I'd like to say we were told it isn't a HORRIBLE thing to do, but that if you can't find a vein in...I think it was thirty seconds, to pull it out. Was probably less. Wonder which hurt worse... [/quote] Then you haven't see a doctor cause massive bleeding in a vein because they did that and have to send the patient off to surgery t fix it