In coming wall of text, and I tried to condensed it but I was enjoying the conversations a bit too much. [quote=@GreivousKhan] Exactly my thoughts I couldn't agree more. [/quote] I see. [quote=@GreivousKhan] I actually made a test format in OLDguild with that 5v5 that laid witness to the tragic horse incident of 2013, and have been thinking about remaking one for this guild complete with a basic class system of sorts. That mostly follows the TVtrops of Glass Canon and The Wall, etc, thus making characters allot more balanced overall, rather then them ending up with prefect strength, speed, and endurance. [/quote] I'm not familiar with those TVtrops. I usually end up comparing my stats using real world examples that people could likely understand or get an idea of, namely say you know which is obviously stronger when it comes to someone with say bear strength vs someone has enough power to deadlift a small truck or two over head. Though I am guilty of ignoring key stat levels in favor of making it a good battle until it can't be or it's a weakness. Namely as most fights are never an actual ram fight (aka, lock horns and push) but mostly who can trap their opponent first. The stat types I mentioned are also easily researchable or could have links supplied, along with the actually determined number mention. That's a factor which is missing when it comes to actually understanding and putting stats against each other, not to mention what influences affect strength and speed. I never realized, until Yosh explained it to me, about three key factors that can affect a hit's strength which is something not many newbies will put or take in account. That it's not just force but weigh, balance and other aspects to keep in mind. In some cases, getting more interest for some is merely as simple as doing some of the work for them to show them how. These are aspect missing currently to me which while it's great to ask others, people like to be less dependent and have better examples to use for their own attempts. *One thing I think would be helpful is a link library or list of acceptable textual and number stats ranges for strength, speed, stamina and whatever else at a normal human level that helps determine a PCs level. Also I think more technical guides to when it comes to what needs to be considered in determining how hard a hit is, effects of different terrain on speeds and mobility, how to keep your balance while tossing and receive a hit and etc. AT least for those who want to apply them to battle. Actually having arena fighters put out their own discoveries and experiences out there in tutorials or briefs would help establish the basics of realism, at least for me. Once the newbies have sources to understand that line then they can begin to break them much easier while still producing balances. It's hard to go beyond something you've literally never actually done or have the money/means to learn and some arena newbies could have little to no experience at all in real combat/fighting/martial arts/etc. Which this makes it hard to understand what the body is, and I mean really, capable of and myths that we're lead to believe by movies and stories. Sadly, I'll keep repeating and stressing this until the cows come home as I was and still am in that damn boat. :P [quote=@GreivousKhan] Hopefully it will also prevent mini-maxing that Skalla managed, giving himself Godly in every skill set. >.> Cause the gods forbid he make a character anyone has a chance against, but I digress. See where was this kind of feed back when I asked Chat months/weeks ago? I'll probably install in into the next 5v5 I do, and due to it being only Tier 1's as well as being a group match up (which people prefer going into if it's their first time it seems) it will be a prefect place for rookies to get their feet wet, if I can find the time with all the stuff going on. [/quote] Not sure? I know when I looked back on the some of the threads, some of the discussion seemed to have been all over the place. Also I wasn't around until recently questioning and help energize things btw. Though I look forward to seeing it as it sounds ideal Khan and might help stir some rookies in the arena though one question... What if you can't get 10 rookies? Are you going to allow vets and more experienced fighters into that? Mainly so they can help teach the rookies physics? :p [quote=@MelonHead] Shots fired, but ultimately yeah I'd like to see balance in the form of -real- weaknesses and strengths in characters, like actual humans. [/quote] *points to above statement, the one with the little asterisk* While it doesn't comment on the statement, the idea in the * paragraph would likely benefit with a list of limitations for a human level which could slowly be peeled away and replaced with others as newbies stem from realism. In some instances, some weaknesses are suppose to be widely known but it always helps to have them reiterated for those who forget or haven't a clue about it. We're all human after all... unless one of you are secretly an Alien AI. *pauses and glances squinting eyes at each of you* Right? [quote=@Skallagrim] My characters all have weaknesses Khan, you just need to learn how to fight. [/quote] Considering you have one loss... someone was able to stand up to your PC. Just not sure who and details of it. Though I have to agree with Khan, you have some powerful CSes and seriously intimidating pcs. [quote=@Rilla] @Fallenreaper While it might be limiting and repeating, people tend to be different enough that, in theory, two people playing a fire type person could play them completely different. That would also make for a good fight. Using the same character to see how differently they are played. I did something similar with Luna, who used to RP here. The thing about making a list is that there is always something forgotten. The basics are simple, basically, no extreme healing, teleportation, etc.[/quote] True but in some cases isn't that one aspect that actually brings individuals to the arena in the first place? For me it was a rather big one. Not to mention a muse might not be able to work within confined themes and that's punishing someone for something a bit out of their control. At least to me. However I'm not putting this together and I could be completely wrong, I don't know or will state I know everything. It could do exactly as you want it to but it could also not. One thing that does likely need be done is defining as the basic realism and levels. No matter what, that needs to be established. Even if you just do human level because I've seen adrenaline (guilty of it in the past myself) be the 'super' boost that allows over the top shenanigans. I have already pointed out about some people not fully understanding some aspects do affect key things. Unless you aim on everyone battling identical arenas? Then that wouldn't an issue and my last state on it is moot. [quote=@Rilla] On the subject of Points, if I did make it with points, it would be similar to Bleach - Rising Stars, and focus more on Strength, Speed, Magic Ability, Defense(split between magical and physical), and maybe intelligence or evasion/ or something, but stats aren't a good way to introduce people. The way I suggested, probably would be. As, personally, it keeps them from getting too fancy, which is where a lot of issues start.[/quote] True but I usually thought it was usually due to balance. Some people don't list weaknesses along with their strengths for fear of it being used against them in a match. Some don't have weaknesses equal to their strengths. Sadly, with me... It's a habit I try to level out my weaknesses and strengths, giving a bit more strengths than weaknesses. It's something I won't break or stop as without the listed weakness, the PC feels too op to me. Personally, that's why I listed them so they can be used since every match will never be exacting the same and just because you had a weakness listed doesn't mean my PC doesn't have a way to protect or is not aware of it. They wouldn't have 'survived' this long if they didn't know how to defend against people would use it and every case is different because no single match is ever the exact same. Sorry for the wall, guys, I really am so don't kick my ass. >,<