[quote=@Rica] As vilageidiot said those are pretty common gag gifts and honestly if it's in the dead middle of what's essentially a party I really doubt people would care. [/quote] I'm sure you realize as well as me that this is a specific example and that, with a simple google search, you can pull up stuff that's much less a gag and more or less straight up sexual, my friend. [quote=@Rica]No I'm not. I actually don't think you understand exactly what it's like to live in this world as a queer person because you, by your own words, aren't. That simple.[/quote] I'm sorry, since I'm not queer I'm not allowed to speak? [quote=@Rica]That'd be easier if we weren't killed for exposing ourselves and assumed straight unless we tell every human being we meet otherwise.[/quote] I'm sorry that people assume you're part of the majority. LGBT people do not have physical traits that set them apart from the majority. What do you want them to do, [i]smell[/i] that you're queer? Please don't go there. I can't smell what you are and so I'm gonna address you as what I think you are. I don't think people that expose themselves as LGBT or so get killed. They may get shunned. Maybe deal with violence. Maybe maybe deal with murder. They're an easy target I'm sure that is true. But to assume that all LGBT people might get killed just for saying 'hey I'm gay' is ridiculous. [quote=@Rica]No you're right it is technically a mental illness. And honestly I think the only way to resolve the unfortunate issue of the sex change sometimes making things worse is if we were more accepting of the concept of gender presentation not needing to match gender identity. Because fuck if it's not more complicated than people like to think. The sooner we stop running with the assumption you must adhere to this, this and that traits to be a man/woman, the sooner people will be free to express themselves however they wish [i]without having to change things they might not want to change[/i].[/quote] So.. if they don't want to change from a female into a male or male into a female, are they transgender? Because you lost me now. The concept of gender seems to be lost on you. What you're describing is not gender. Gender is not a coloring book where you can draw what you want. It's something that we created socially in order to organize ourselves and create labels for people. The labels happen to be male, female, and transgender. [quote]this and that traits to be a man/woman[/quote] This is gender. The stereotypical traits that are commonly associated with a certain sex based on culture, heritage and social norms, combine to form a gender. You can be of the male sex and still identify as a female in your gender based on the concept that if you behave and act like a woman, you have the female gender. This is just facts. I'm sorry if you disagree, you should become a sociologist and challenge this concept, or otherwise begin writing papers, because this is just how it's been agreed on. [quote=Rica]It's not about fixing anything. Like I said it's a celebration.[/quote] I get that. I think you are celebrating the wrong things. I don't want to deny you your party. I just think you'd be better off celebrating other things. And even then I don't care that much. My real sticking point is that it happens in a public space and you're forcing people to look at things that they do not want to see. Don't get me wrong. I think men should be capable of kissing in public (and they are here in the Netherlands, nobody will say a thing.) but the point where I draw the line is indecency and a single 'gay pride' term in the search bar can show you exactly why. It's the same way I don't really like how we advertise underwear using scantily clad models of either sex. I just don't like it in the public space. And really, do search for gay pride. I'm sure you can understand why I wouldn't like it. [quote=Rica]My disdain has less to do with heterosexual people but rather obtuse people who refuse to be empathetic to the point of view of someone who lives a life from a [i]very[/i] different perspective than they do because they aren't heterosexual. Unfortunately most people who can't look past the fact tend to be heterosexual.[/quote] .. I'm confused. How do you expect everyone to see stuff from your perspective? This has nothing to do with being gay or not, this has to do with your inability to deal with the fact that people have differing views. I'm also not very empahetic, mostly because I really don't care. [quote=Rica]Those numbers are also missing one key note [url=https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/]If you look at the bottom at suicide attempts, while men are more likely to succeed. Women are more likely to attempt.[/url] But men tend to go for methods that are quick and efficient, like guns and hangings. So they're much less likely to be saved and taken to a hospital. The chart above the section on suicide attempts shows that firearms make up of almost half of suicides.[/quote] This doesn't disqualify my theory that the fact that being gay or not has very little to do with sexuality and more with gender, mostly because 5% of women suicides is gay, where as 20% is heterosexual. There's a gap. The roles should be reversed in this case if what you're saying holds true. I'd like you to explain why 5% is gay where as the 20% is straight where as you are saying this is not true. [quote=Rica]So you're not wrong, men are more likely to kill themselves. That alone is correct. But gay youth from ages 10 to 24 [url=http://www.thetrevorproject.org/pages/facts-about-suicide]Are overall more likely to make an attempt on their lives or think of committing suicide which is also directly linked to events of bullying and abuse.[/url][/quote] [quote]LGB youth are 4 times more likely, and questioning youth are 3 times more likely, to attempt suicide as their straight peers.[/quote] says nothing about being bullied. [quote] Each episode of LGBT victimization, such as physical or verbal harassment or abuse, increases the likelihood of self-harming behavior by 2.5 times on average.[/quote] I'd like to know if this holds true for 'victimization' in general. I happen to think that bullying in general raises the chances of self harming by 2.5 times on average, [b]RATHER than just for LGBT people.[/b] [quote=Rica]Gang related murder and crime is it's own can of worms because it's not hate crime related.[/quote] This doesn't mean that being LGBT is just an aggravating cause that raises the chances of getting killed. If we're gonna label every murder on a LGBT person as a hatecrime then the list would be very big. But we don't do that, because sometimes people get killed over something OTHER than their sexuality. LGBT's are not the biggest group of people currently being murdered. There are certain other lifestyles and jobs and such that carry risk of death with them. Such as being a cop. A cop has a higher risk of dying than normal people. You can be a gay cop, making your risk of dying even higher, despite the fact that these two things (being gay and a cop) are not related at all. [quote=Rica]The truth of the matter is the worst 'category' to be in right now is [url=http://www.avp.org/storage/documents/ncavp_transhvfactsheet.pdf]Transwomen[/url]. They are far more likely to experience hate crimes and death and sexual violence than any other group. Especially if you add race into the mix. Since black transwomen are even more at risk.[/quote] Yeah, nice try. Read your own folder. This folder categorizes 'hatecrime' as crime against lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer (LGBTQ), and HIV-affected communities. And therefore that automatically means that this statistic, WHILE TRAGIC, has nothing really to do with what was being said. You're miscontruing these folders to fit your agenda. What is actually being said in this folder is that out of all the LGBT people + HIV community, trans women are most likely to experience violence. Which is sad. But that doesn't really mean anything for the discussion we are having. [quote=Rica]And unfortunately hate crimes get worse immediately after laws are placed to protect or give these groups rights to match everyone else. Such as the sudden rise in [url=https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/hes-not-done-killing-her-why-so-many-trans-women-were-murdered-in-2015]murders against transwomen (particularly people of color) after a law was enacted to included gender identity in hate crimes[/url] This is unfortunately common seeing as it also happened when [url=http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/ericrosswood/violent_lgbt_hate_crimes_on_the_rise_after_marriage_equality_ruling]same sex marriage was legalized in the US[/url][/quote] It's sad that America is lightyears behind Europe when it comes to this. I'm sorry for the people that suffer because of that. People don't want the government treating us like people. That's just a fact. They get mad when they afford us the same rights and hate crime status because that means we're being accepted. Not much else I can say about this except for the fact that the acts of the few should not account for the thoughts of many. I'm sure there was public outrage at these murders. Either way, this is an American situation, and does not happen where I live. .. thus making gay prides even more unnecessary, because there is accordingly nothing to celebrate about surviving. [quote=Rica][url=http://www.gender-focus.com/2013/12/21/violence-against-bisexual-people/]Here's a article addressing the findings about bisexual women and rape/domestic violence[/url] This is something both heterosexual and queer people have an issue with outright. We (generally) are absolutely [i]horrible[/i] to bisexual partners. It's most likely due to some very unfortunate and [i]false[/i] beliefs about bisexual people causing resentment. A lot of gross beliefs that they're just greedy, they need to 'pick a side', don't even get me started on the 'gold star lesbian' crap (basically you're a gold star lesbian if you've never been with a man).[/quote] Can't say I relate. Seems like an issue that's particular to the US because I've never heard of this before. Very interesting stuff. I'll read on it some more. How does one get 'greedy' when it comes to sex :/ [quote=Rica]I can in fact be proud of both my achievements personally and the fact that I've made it this far as a queer person. Pride isn't really a one or the other. A lot of us have considered suicide, myself included. Is there really anything [i]wrong[/i] with celebrating life?[/quote] And I can support being proud of that. I don't support being proud of being gay in and of itself. Being proud of surviving, yes, being proud of 1 thing that doesn't define you (like being gay) is not so much a prideful thing for me. Have you considered many straight people also have considered suicide, myself included, for issues that were not related to sexuality, but were still issues? [quote=Rica]I do see them. And while I'm just as guilty of being mildly frustrated with straight people (Again this is mostly due to ignorance of the fact we are different and that's ok. We don't have to be just like you to be ok.) The idea that they need to die doesn't sit right with me.[/quote] And I'm mildly frustrated with LGBT people for not accepting some things are just the way they are (talking about the fact that people will call you a man if you look like one, even if you don't 'identify' as one, because we can't smell that shit). Doesn't mean I dislike LGBT people. They're just people, so I don't really hold them accountable for their group. [quote=Rica][@Vilageidiotx] covered this one for me.[/quote] Must be an American thing. We don't have any parades at all, basically gay pride is the only thing here. Well, maybe the two other times you'll see a blocked off route is for a marathon or for Kings/queensday. :lol I also wonder why Americans are so obsessed with heritage and culture. Most Slavs living in America are barely Slavic at all. Most Irish living in America are barely Irish at all. It seems like some vague attempt at getting glory and/or something to be proud of because you are lacking in personal achievements. Polish people moving to the Netherlands often celebrate culture behind closed doors. Outside of the doors, they're Dutch. That goes for many minorities, LGBT included.