[quote=@Dynamo Frokane]
[@Fabricant451] It seems based on your criticisms of 10 are more just general criticisms of JRPGs in general.[/quote]

Could be. 


Could not be.

Could be that I like JRPGs.


Could be that JRPGs are constantly disappointing for reasons similar to this. 


Could be. 



[quote]But if you are going to criticise 10 for being a JRPG, fine, I have plenty problems with that genre, but then it really just comes down to characters and story, I dont even like 10 but Auron has much more charm and depth than Hope, Fang, Snow and Lightning put together.[/quote]

See I disagree. I didn't find Auron particularly charming whereas the triangle of characters that was Snow, Lightning, and Hope had more depth in their interactions and growth than most casts of any given Final Fantasy. 13 is much more 'introspective and character problems' rather than 'world threatening problems'. Fang is probably the weakest of the bunch, though, so 5 out of 6 ain't bad.


[quote]Apart from the fact she's a rug muncher I don't see what makes Vanille any less annoying than Rikku.[/quote]

Vanille is way more annoying than Rikku. Vanille is literally the worst because all of the game is her fault. But she's still a good character. 

[quote]Sahz is OKAY big fish in a very small pond. But I'd still say Lulu and Wakka while somewhat basic are still more entertaining at least in terms of character concepts if nothing else.[/quote] 

And that's fine. Wakka is a simple man and Lulu's entire design makes no sense but it's Nomura so who cares. I didn't particularly care for Wakka or Lulu whereas I at least gave a shit about the conflicts of the 13 cast. Wakka's the Sazh of 10. Except Sazh is less racist and also more racist.

[quote]What makes 13 shit is that its just as flawed as every other final fantasy game but its topped off with a terrible cast, awful pacing and generally less to do. If you dont like sidequests, towns or puzzles, then why the hell would you play a JRPG in the first place?
[/quote]

I like the cast and the story of 13. I like the story up until it becomes "save the world" anyway because it was trying something new in regards to the conflict and then it went down the drain once friendship became a thing again. Puzzles and towns do not a great JRPG make and I'll never understand why the lack of towns is seen as such a negative. People like 13-2 more for some reason that makes no sense and that has fuckin no towns either. I got into JRPGs when I was a child because I was stupid and thought "man these stories and characters are real great" and it's only as I got older and more into thinking critically about video games and other things that I realized how silly I was. 

The reason I play JRPGs isn't for the puzzles or the towns or sidequests (unless those sidequests have rewards that are meaningful and even then I don't focus on them). Nowadays I don't really PLAY JRPGs because the majority of them are garbage and not aimed at people like me. But when I do play a JRPG it is either for the combat or it's for the characters/story. Every so often there's a JRPG where the characters aren't the same archetypes the genre has come to rely upon and that's great. But in the market that's oversaturated with the king of generic Tales series and the Idea Factory and Gust games, I've not genuinely enjoyed a JRPG in years. I like FF13. I have and will continue to defend FF13. I wrote a god damn essay on why I like FF13. But FF13 is not a good game. I doubt FF15 is going to be good but have I already ordered the special edition? Yes I have. Because I make bad choices in life and because I want to enjoy a JRPG again at some point. 

It's why I like the game Nier so much. It's a deconstruction of Japanese role playing games while also having some of the best character interactions the genre has had.