[@ImportantNobody] I've just lost a portion of my work [i]again[/i], so you'll need to forgive this next response being rushed -- as soon as I post this I've basically got another night of getting back lost data ahead of me, which probably means another night without any sleep too. [quote=ImportantNobody] I can enjoy completely played for laugh fights, maybe like 10% of the time, while the rest might have a joke or two thrown in there or completely serious depending on my opponent. I would only do a fight completely using dice (and taking possible outcomes to the extreme) if I was in the mood for the more zany side of things. We do indeed agree that relying on dice too much could cause unrealistic stuff to occur. We seem to disagree that it could be exciting or good writing. Good is subjective, of course. [/quote] Exactly -- it's subjective. The entire point of this thread was to get multiple subjective views, rather than allow a single bias to dictate things (which, just for the record, would've happened if I hadn't been here). The only reason I even bother to keep posting here is to make things more objective. That being said, we agree that it can make things less realistic, and I - personally - do not find comedic battles entertaining nor do I find combat which lacks tactical realism to be exciting or enjoyable -- my attention to detail and nature as a deconstructionist/reconstructionist means I do not have much of a willing suspension of disbelief, a statement I've made a few times in this thread actually. I also consider out of character writing to be the greatest blasphemy a writer can commit, which is why I despise most fanfiction. [quote=ImportantNobody] I agree with Broken here, which ties in well with my system of using rolling as a guide in situations where things could go either way. Going of the example, a gunman fighting what could be a nimble opponent is bound to miss sometimes despite being a great shot. As such, if he sometimes misses and sometimes hits in a certain scenario, using a dice in such circumstances makes sense if the options given are hit and miss rather than an option to also shoot himself. Now if it's an expert swordsman swinging at close range at someone, I don't see dice rolling as valid of a thing as it's more evident the outcome of the slashes. The opponent could still dodge or block somehow, but this is more common sense if they could manage where bullets whizzing through the air and dashing opponents is more open to "luck" where we can't predict as well. [/quote] I don't recall ever disagreeing with the notion that a partial dice system could be useable in appropriate situations involving archery or gunslinger battles, did I? All I've been saying is that I've seen plenty of times when the dice rolls ended up constantly coming up badly and each of these so-called experts fighting each other ended up looking like complete amateurs. That's not even considering that I've seen role-plays where getting a 1 meant you shot yourself instead of simply missed -- the term 'critical fail' was used. It led to the sort of thing you'd only see in a parody comic. That being said, my entire side of the debate was centred around situations where dice were inappropriate, such as the sword fighting you just described, but even long-ranged combat can become completely inappropriate for dice when many different types of superpowers are in the equation (hence why I keep saying dice are less appropriate in higher tier settings) -- I listed one such example in my last few posts but plenty of others exist, many of which I've used before. There's even minor superpowers - like enhanced senses or reflexes - that can completely negate dice having any sense of realism, and I can think of vastly more complex powers than this. My long time collaboration role-playing friend met me on the same dice/stats focused role-playing forum I constantly cite as my introduction to how many problems systems like this can create, but once he suggested I create a role-playing forum focused on my own setting we immediately were in agreement that a dice/stat system could never work with it due to its depth and complexity. [quote=ImportantNobody] Despite defending this dice rolling system, I still wouldn't use it much. [/quote] I wouldn't use it, period -- it's completely incapable of catering to the style or tier of battles that I specialize in. I'm only humouring the GM using them in our role-play because he isn't obligating me to do so and I'm just using that role-play to exercise a bit since it's been years since I've done this.