[quote=@Verse Zero] [@RogerD] Yes, though the Elders are the oldest of the immortals (allegedly since they rewrote a lot of historical events in a 'history is written by the victor sense.') since the Vampires are the oldest sub-species. [/quote] I think I misread your history. So in this vampries were first, whereas in Underworld Immortals were first followed by vampires and werewolves. Would that be correct? Damn my head cold, reading anything feels like moving through amber at the minute, it is rubbish.