[quote=@Cyclone]
<Snipped quote by BBeast>

Remember that Zephyrion actually created the ogres by mutating urtelem. Ommok himself is the original ogre and was once an urtelem. He even has some vague memory of it, though I've yet to explore that IC. I was even thinking about having the ogres tame urtelem and have a somewhat special relationship with them since they're so closely related, but again, I haven't quite gotten there yet.

So, I have two questions: firstly, would the urtelem necessarily be hostile to ogres their somewhat unique origins? I would think that to the urtelem, ogres would be far more recognizable than hain or any other creatures. Secondly, do white giants attack urtelem? If white giants ignore urtelem then I think that the ogres are good, whereas if they attack urtelem then I would presume that the ogres would only have to deal with one or the other in any given area.

Perhaps I'll explain this oversight as the grasslands not having many urtelem around. Maybe the next post could have the ogres venture further east (to where the grasslands meet the Ironhearts) and then encounter tamed packs of urtelem.
[/quote]

I remember very well that the ogres are mutated urtelem. As Termite pointed out, this won't spare them from their wrath. The only advantage this gives is that an ogre would be generally stronger than an urtelem, because Zephy explicitly wanted to use Urtelem but make them 'better'.

Additionally, there has been the relatively recent and very significant developments in urtelem culture and intelligence. There is a fairly significant cultural chasm which has developed since the conception of the ogres. While sign language predates the ogres, the spiral script does not. An alliance would not be automatic.

And 'tamed' isn't quite the right word, as Termite also mentioned. Urtelem are smart. They have culture. They are probably smarter than the ogres; less civilised, maybe, but more intelligent. Urtelem 'taming' by the hain has always been a matter of encouraging the urtelem to hang around in a general area and letting them do their thing of protecting the place. And it works because urtelem are instinctually programmed to do that.

The ogres and urtelem could still form an alliance of sorts. However, you would want to keep the urtelem well clear of your warbands, for marauding and conquering would be a sure-fire way to became an enemy of the urtelem.

And white giants do attack urtelem. I believe I cover that specifically in their creation sheet. As urtelem contain not a trace of Slough or Toun, they are targets. As such, urtelem do what they can to avoid white giants. And given their mathematical mindedness and the predictable patrol patterns of the white giants (and the aforementioned hiding-in-the-ground trick), they can do that with ease.

But all this notwithstanding, unless you encounter a massed herd of urtelem, or until something else changes, Ommok's conquest will still advance with low losses, for the ogres are generically stronger than urtelem (by design) and are better armed. But it would make things more interesting than simply steamrolling over the defenceless hain tribes.