Okay, some of this discussion needs a little unpacking... [u][b]Disclaimer: Stuff is my opinion[/b][/u] [quote=@Awson] Almost every movie has people trying to spin it in a social or cultural way. There are people who praise Fury Road for its "feminism," but that doesn't mean that they only liked it for solely that reason. Those people are the minority anyway. [/quote] [quote=@Awson] Almost every movie has people trying to spin it in a social or cultural way. [/quote] [quote=@Awson] Those people are the minority anyway. [/quote] Okay now I get what you were trying to say in relation to these statements, but you have to admit. Saying "minority of people" followed by "it happens all the bloody time by everyone" seems eye brow raising. But what you meant was, "yes, it happens to a lot of movies. But it's usually the same minority of people who are politically charged people." That's clearer. However... [quote=@Awson] There are people who praise Fury Road for its "feminism," but that doesn't mean that they only liked it for solely that reason. [/quote] This implies that NO ONE liked the movie solely because of its political message. But I can you again, that isn't true. And you admitting previous sentence that it's the minority, at least grants me that it DOES happen. But this sentence disregards the whole thing. [quote=@Awson] First part is still bullshit. [/quote] Like this one did previously. Is it true or not? It can't be both. [quote=@Awson] [i]Some[/i] people. [/quote] Again, contradiction. You say it's all bullshit in some of it and then you say it's some people. And I didn't imply everyone...But I've made that abundantly clear, you didn't read my statement if you believed otherwise. [quote=@Awson] It's not absurd, actually. The audio and visuals are very important for this movie. The visuals, especially. And it was a mere possiblity, among many, for people not getting what's good about the movie. [/quote] Most things you mentioned about the movie were the "they just don't get it" which is kind of insulting since the movie was so stupidly basic/plotless. But, most people "got" what they were watching, they were just questioning, why a post apocalypse where gasoline is super expensive, do they waste as much on this absurd chase as possible and have a giant sound stage set up with a guitarist shooting flames. >.> [quote=@Awson] There are also articles that say it's good and say nothing about feminism. [/quote] :I Ya know, it would make a point just a wee bit stronger, if you even provided [b]ONE[/b] link when you say that. -.- But, I'm sure there's one that exists in the either. It's the internet after all, but there's plenty that hated the movie too. For no reason you mentioned previously. [i]Like I did.[/i] :/ [quote=@Awson] PURE SPECULATION: And you don't hear anybody say "I don't like limited dialogue" because when that's true, what actually comes out is "The story was shallow." You wouldn't know that you didn't like that. Most people don't truly understand themselves. [/quote] :I Stories can be shallow, regardless of dialogue. (it depends on the [b]strength[/b] of the dialogue present.) If you try to argue this story is a masterpiece, I'd love you to explain, how. [i]You can't. Because it wasn't.[/i] I liked the Avatar (the blue cat one) in theaters, but it wasn't because of the story. So I'm not opposed to liking beautifully shot cliches. But admitting that is the first step. [quote=@Awson] 99% of movies you see have plenty of dialogue. And they make sure the story is said out loud, crystal-clear. Some will certainly dislike a movie because it goes against this common pattern. The truth is, that the amount of verbal storytelling has no bearing on whether a movie is good or not. Hell, the amount of ANY storytelling has little bearing on whether a picture is good (this is the hard part). An action movie with little story can still be a good movie. It's perfectly fine for the story to take a backseat to action. Normally, I don't particularly like movies like this, but Fury Road happens to have THE MOST WELL-MADE ACTION in any movie I've ever seen. And I liked the aesthetic and characters. I liked everything about it, really. I believe that since you were expecting more verbal story, the "trite" dialogue between characters stood out as bad because it notably lacked what you wanted it to have. [/quote] I liked John Wick. So, uh yeah no. :/ I agree that [b]PLOT[/b] isn't the most important thing in a story. It's the [b]characters[/b]. No one would make superhero movies about batman and superman if all there was to those characters was their powers. John Wick made me CARE about the carnage I was watching, it actually did a good job hooking you in and wasting no time. It was a far smarter movie and more interesting as an action flick. :/ The dialogue that the movie did have, WAS trite. Is was redemption that had no context or meaning or point, and took the story no where. There was no character depth, arcs or growth. There was no interesting world building, (unlike John Wick.) The action, was literally ONE chase scene and location for nearly the whole 2 hour movie. [quote=@Awson] The first thing I said is The Revenant is good, as long as you don't dislike outdoorsy survival movies. The problem is that I never said or even implied that it being outdoorsy was all it had going for it. You brought up The Grey as a singular example of a movie like that which you didn't like, and then said some dumb shit. So yes, "nonsense." [/quote] [quote=@Awson] Not gonna try very hard to convince you to see The Revenant. I'll say that it's probably the hardest for someone to dislike out of my list up there. As long as that person is okay with outdoorsy, survival movies. [/quote] All you gave me, was it can't be disliked if someone liked outdoor survival movies. That's all you said, and I gave you an example of another one of those movies. I knew that it wasn't the same, but what you gave me, wasn't remotely helpful. Even if it's somehow one of "those" movies, that it's hard to explain why it's good. You could at least -say- that. :/ [quote=@Awson] I was never saying that you're completely surrounded by like-minded people. Just that you may echo off of one or two of them. I judge my "general consensus" on lots and lots of sources. I carefully weigh each one as well. It's kind of an obsession of mine. It just seemed to me like you mostly go off of yourself and a few friends. [/quote] I don't know how you got that, since not only did I mention I DON'T actively go see movies more often than not...I also brought up my family as well. So, definitely not the case. Also from you're post about judging something based on outliers being a bad thing, you seem like you pick whatever the popular consensus is. Which I guess [b]can't[/b] be true, if you're telling me about the problems of bandwagons. [s](that, believe me I'm aware.)[/s] [i]Also you don't like GOTG2[/i] Which again, makes me question why it's egregious to disagree with the majority. [quote=@Awson] Let's not go into this one. [/quote] I'd almost be interested to see someone argue, that art quality isn't/can't be subjective. If I knew if wasn't futile. :I Edit: Sorry if this comes off too impolitely, was grumpy because I haven't ate. Rectified that. :I