[@ZB1996] I got to be honest here, I'm super, super confused on what exactly you're even disagreeing with and what points you're making. [quote=@ZB1996] I normally keep away from posting in this thread, as there is no easier way to make enemies. However, this post has irked me for a certain reason. I have tried to conceal my own political beliefs as much as I can, though obviously I could not do so fully. [/quote] Sorry, this is not the best example of how I usually discuss. But will do my best to keep it at a good level. People shouldn't have to hide politic opinions because of hate they may receive as long as it's genuine. [quote=@ZB1996] It is clear that to those who believe utterly in selfishness, a conflict of interest would occur between he and his boss, especially if his boss demands something of him. Further, he who is governed by self-interest has no reason to serve his boss for pay, if he can simply take it. [/quote] I'm not sure if this a disagreement, basically you're saying. If the guy doesn't like his boss, he won't be interested in being useful to his boss. Though I disagree as many people hate their jobs but still try their hardest out of necessity to make a living. Out of self interest, his family needing money and food. Someone who is selfish, or self centered would still do what he could not to be fired for pay. Because the person needs money...I don't know what I'm discussing here to be frank. [quote=@ZB1996] But she will probably fail. The placement of this example is curious, for if the attempted rapist is her boss then she will not follow this latter category. [/quote] You are mistaken, the comments of the women and her body being private propriety and the teen and boss scenario are completely unrelated and aren't even replies to the same thing. So I'm confused at your placement. [quote=@ZB1996] This seems true enough, but it seems to miss this point of most discussions of private property. It would seem that the greatest problem regarding private property is not that it exist but that the number of holders naturally becomes disproportionate. Far from the Locke’s vision of many small-scale landowners, what appears is an oligarchy in regards to wealth, where only a few gather up most of the wealth. And for most people, this does not result in any advantage for them. [/quote] Okay, I think this is arguing against capitalism and how private property works? Saying this doesn't give people advantages? If that's the case. I strongly disagree, everyone benefits from private property laws. Even poorer people without any possessions. Privately owned lands for instance are much cleaner than their public counterparts. Reasons that make it obvious. Once again, confused. [quote=@ZB1996] This seems true, but I would add that belief in private property and the emphasis on self-interest is an important distinguisher of libertarianism from anarchism. [/quote] You say seems true alot, I'd love for you to provide links or other backing to elaborate on the point you're making because at points it just seems like you're agreeing more than disagreeing. :P [quote=@ZB1996] This is true. The Left enjoys creating a strawman of libertarians. They draw conclusions from what they think is the Libertarian ideology, and assume that these are the conclusions that libertarians draw. This stand especially for Rand. [/quote] Well to be fair so does the right... [quote=@ZB1996] This is true, but it must be noted that even under this restriction they will do what they can to fulfill the desires their self-interest desires. This means unionization, strikes, or, if the situation should so demand, revolution. [/quote] I did make a point that they have options. And yes, strikes will likely lead to that boss, not becoming successful. [quote=@ZB1996] There is no real reason to believe that the prominent individuals of alt-Right or most of their followers are being disingenuous. They have political beliefs which are not merely shams to troll people. That is not to say that there have not been trolls and fake controversies. On the other end, political correctness is a real problem, though it has been exaggerated. It was ridiculous when Orlando Bloom was criticized for calling himself a pikey, and it was equally ridiculous when people complained that Blizzard made Tracer from Overwatch gay. [/quote] Well I will say, some people seemed to be confused on who the alt right even in. And I'm not saying all of them are trolls, I will say the troll mentality, I see far more often than I should. But again, I basically agree... [quote=@ZB1996] This is true. Yet while it certainly helps Trump from charges of racism, it does not really alleviate his opponents fear that his policies, whether real or simply stated during his presidential campaign, have deliberately targeted minorities. [/quote] I guess I agree too? Though those fears are still irrational. [quote=@ZB1996] During the campaign Trump indeed said nothing against the transgender community, and openly disregarded North Carolina’s transgender bathroom law, though his Administration seems to have made peace with that law since. I do not know what you mean when you say that he was the only president that was for gay marriage when it was not politically convenient. I presume you mean his speech at the convention in regards to Orlando nightclub shooting, but almost all Republicans were equally supportive, regardless of their opinion on same-sex marriage. But Trump has never been a supporter of gay marriage, and has only decided to leave the law alone, which is not really a move of courage. [/quote] Didn't mention politicians, I said presidents. And recent candidates like Obama and Hillary and Bush I'm pretty sure all were against the law, but flip flopped to supporting it. I guess you may be correct about Trump's views on gay marriage, looking into it more. Though he hasn't ever flip flopped like previous candidates. So that first part, I stand by because it's true. Look up statements from Obama, Hillary etc and you'll know what I mean. https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/21/donald-trump-says-transgender-people-should-use-the-bathroom-they-want/ [quote=@ZB1996] It doesn’t seem appropriate to not call Trump a conservative. Though he has some differences from most Republicans, such as support for large increases in infrastructure spending and a less interventionist approach in foreign policy, he does not differ much from most Republicans. [/quote] Trump's policies aren't that conservative. I did preference, by America's standard as everyone here is right wing compared to the rest. Though I will admit, I've not been following his recent activities as of late, maybe he's become much more right. I wouldn't know. I certainly think he was voted for by so many because of this fact, that he seemed to be more of a populist. But I disgress and it's getting into conjecture at that point. https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/campaigns-elections/donald-trump-not-conservative/ http://www.nationalreview.com/article/442221/donald-trump-pragmatist-not-conservative http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/david-limbaugh/2016/03/21/no-donald-trump-not-conservative [quote=@ZB1996] These two theses can be true without there being any contradiction, for among some people mixed-race relationships may be rising while among others white supremacy may be rising. [/quote] Not really because it doesn't make sense for whites to want to be the superior race but then have more relationships to make sure that doesn't happen, but the whole 'KKK is dying' thing. Probably helps prove that it's not a strong point right now. [quote=@ZB1996] Of course there are many in the swing states who voted for Trump for economic reasons. Yet I do think that many of them voted for Trump for social reasons, as you implied yourself. There are no studies that I can point to to prove this. However, I can say that I remember the campaign, and it was not an economic message which spiraled Trump to popularity, but his comments on Mexican illegal immigration, which, because they were more inflammatory and its position harder than his rivals, made him more appealing to the Republican base. Likewise with his comments regarding Muslims. [/quote] I do believe social reasons and the left's behavior at the time was certainly his main success. Trump's unfiltered message was refreshing to people. Despite not actually being particularly articulate. Though I will point out, It wasn't solely the right that appreciated things that he spoke about. [quote=@ZB1996] If these were their thoughts, then they were certainly ignorant. Yet Republicans have often raised taxes, and the Democrats have often lowered them, despite the received view. [/quote] Links would help...but I will concede democrats give tax breaks in american history. But that's again because we're considered more "right" and taxes are extremely looked down upon in the western world, more often than not. Republicans raising them, I honestly don't know if there's any super big instant of that. :/ I just know Bill Clinton raised them so high that even he admitted to going to far... [quote=@ZB1996] Perhaps it is not possible to be turned around now, but with truly privatized hospitals people would be turned away. [/quote] They legally cannot do that in emergencies. It. is. not. legal. The meme mentions stabbing, that is emergency care. THEY HAVE,to care for you. Please provide evidence to the contrary if you think I'm wrong, because I literally posted the LAW. [quote=@ZB1996] I have no idea what a “smurf” is in this sense, but this person seems real enough, and there is no need to impugn their character. [/quote] I deleted this, because I absolutely hate that the rest of point becomes ignored outright because of this. So it's gone forever now. But it refers to people that make secondary accounts, usually one for serious things and another to goof around or act differently. I've had this happen, on this very site...on this very section...multiple times and also aware of people who have more than two accounts. So I really, really don't see this as that offensive, because of how the account posts are. But I deleted it. Because the point the account made regardless doesn't actually have any basis in reality. [quote=@ZB1996] Were these policies adopted in America they would be a moral disaster. [/quote] Yeah "you're welcome here" Trudeau is a liar. ;D But that proves just how invalid their point is. Well it's sort of a thing that America is evil, it's always the case. Usually said by other Americans, so the irony that we're oh so patriotic kills me. Maybe it's just because we're the only ones allowed. But we criticize ourselves far more often than I see of anyone else. Not saying it doesn't happen, the praise or others criticizing. And this immigration thing, is just false. Europe only has more immigrants of other people from Europe, if you remove Europe people moving to a different place in Europe. America has the most immigrants from all around the world. (in a link I displayed above.) And how awful Europe's condition is, and that people try to say "undocumented immigrant" which means illegal immigrant. When the majority of people have no problems with legal immigration...but people always ignore the word illegal meaning 'did a criminal act by law.' It's a mess of things and a mix of so many things that made me frustrated by this. >.< [quote=@ZB1996] In other words, immigrants in Europe are having a bad time. [/quote] Basically yeah. [quote=@ZB1996] It does not seem so. America has a long history of anti-immigrant sentiment, in spite of long his story of welcoming immigrants. I think you helped show that America is still the land of opportunity, but this does not exonerate us of our own wrongdoing. Though others may be worse, this does not mean we should stop looking at our own wrongdoing and attempt improvement. Illegal immigrants have reason to fear right now. They are vilified as criminals without reason, they have minimal protection from the law, and they have to live with the fear of being deported back. I have the hope that my response did to rouse your anger too much. [/quote] I hope I seem fair in my response as well. America does not have a problem with legal immigrants, we are a melting pot. Illegal implies a crime has already been committed. So that's the reason right there...All places around the world, like I said. Don't allow criminals in their place. Europe legalized and approved all the people that ruined their country. Canada, they cannot get on their welfare system or even get a job. America is effectively the only place they currently CAN cheat the system. And I'm sorry, legal immigrants are even more strict to the idea of illegals than the average person is. We aren't wrong for wanting people to get here legally. Please understand their is a difference. History is history. This is the present and the fact. Illegal immigrants are NOT allowed...ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. This isn't because of people being mean, this is because their purposefully avoiding legal parameters.