[@POOHEAD189]

Of course it is possible that my opinion of patriotism is colored by my experience of people who identify themselves as 'patriots'. I suppose it might be possible that there are people who are affected by patriotic emotion in a good way but seeing they don't go out of their way to be jerks I just don't see that part of the signal.

Does patriotism have positive effects that people can think of? I suppose the defense of self determination is a worthy goal, although yoking that to nationalism seems like a regrettable necessity rather than an overall positive.