[quote=@IrishAngelQueen] Why in the hell would you do that to yourself? [/quote] You clearly haven't been around here long enough to know that I like maths. [quote=@Kho] [@BBeast] Did Teknall ever have that chat with Jvan about all the raping and altering of mortal minds against their will which featured heavily in Violence's accusation against her in Stand? I know he chatted with her after Vowzra was killed, but not sure if he did talk about this matter in particular. If he didn't, the consequences might feature in a future post of mine. [/quote] Now that I'm well rested, I'll give an extended response to this question. Just to confirm that we're talking about the same thing, I presume we're talking about Sculptors. They're the only mortals who are routinely altered by Jvan; all else are rare and isolated incidents. Of note is that Sculptors, when the transformation process begins, always have a part of them that was (at least initially) willing to become a Sculptor, although not necessarily aware of the full ramifications of that process. Thus, the Sculptor transformation is not [i]entirely[/i] against their will. Informed consent is definitely lacking, though. Many Sculptors accept the transformation even before it's complete (Flux was an outlier. Termite said so), although you could argue that this is because their minds are bent to accept it. The morality of the matter is slightly more ambiguous than portrayed by Violence, although it is admittedly still morally wrong on numerous levels. Thus, one hurdle for Teknall in discussing the matter with Jvan is explaining the concept of informed consent to an amoral god who generally views mortals as tools and toys. Another hurdle is the fact that mature Sculptors are useful for Teknall's own ends. The peculiar intellect and personality of a Sculptor, while usually used for frivolous things, can be directed towards functions which are beneficial for Civilisation, such as medicine and alchemy. For Teknall, the typical process of making a Sculptor is immoral, but the Sculptors themselves are good and useful. Is this hypocritical? Probably. Will he do anything about it? Possibly, although he might avoid the issue as long as he can.