[@kingkonrad] [@Monochromatic Rainbow] [Hider=PLOT SPOILERS!!!!] Hmm, I guess I should be more precise, and refer to the converstation between Lady Olenna and Ser Jaime. I wonder if she is referring to the garrison that defended Highgarden. Lady Olenna: "Did we fight well?" Ser Jaime: "As well as could be expected." Lady Olenna: "It was never our forte, golden roses indeed." So, lets go one point at a time. MC = Monochromatic Rainbow. KK = Kingkonrad. 1. Being caught off guard - MC, I'd definitely agree there, but it is a bit more indepth that, "Holy smokes Golden Rose defenders, a massive army." Lord Tarly defecting certainly didn't help, along with who knows how many other lords with him, as he is one scary old war dog. And I mean scary. I want to say Jaime said he was on par with Tywin, as a military leader. On that same note, of being surprised, the Lannister army would have had to march south completely undetected, again, a bit fishy. 2. The Tyrell's have bite to them, due to their numbers/ The Tyrell armies aren't a paper cannon- they are 80,000 men - MC and KK, I agree that numbers do help, but the episode's dialogue, and perhaps a bit of bias from myself, I would argue that the Tyrell's go for a "quantity is its own quality" mentality. Like the Soviets of WW2. You know, the enemy will run out of tanks and bullets before we run out of men. Don't take this as I am saying they are all untrained rabble and peasants, but rather, with having so many more men, I would argue that the need for more stringent/rigorous training is not as pressing. In the books, the Tyrell forces guarding the Shield Islands get overwhelmed very quickly. I digress, the point I am trying to get at is the Tyrells, while having numbers on their side, may not be the strongest army. 80,000 is a whole ton of men, but numbers aren't everything. 3. Highgarden probably had a minimal garrison at best, with the Tyrell forces were off somewhere completely different, mustering to repel a more... conventional assault - rather than something that deep within their territory. - MC, with Dorne to the South, and an ally, the Tyrells/the Reach wouldn't have to station a large portion of their forces there. Due to bordering both the Westerlands and the Crownlands, it would make sense to have the bulk of your forces to be stationed there to 1) Guard against attacks, and 2) Prepare for an offensive operation. I still wouldn't leave Highgarden with a minimal garrison if all me gold was there. I mean, that is a metric ton of bloody gold. Like, more gold than Yukon Cornelius could ever fathom. That would be like leaving a five man team to guard Fort Knox. To me, the most reasonable explanation is that the Lannisters did a blitzkrieg strike. They abandon Casterly Rock, blitz south as fast as possible, brush aside any defenses in place, and just slam the hammer home on Highgarden, with its probably standard garrison. Lord Tarly defecting doesn't help as well, along with Tywin's training. Also, who knows how many other Reachmen either defected, or simply just said "F it, I'm going home." After the incident at the Great Sept, losing member of the High Command never helps. And Mace being the putz he was, yeah, it also didn't help. 4. KK mainly. Different timelines from our RP to the Show, to the Books - 100% Agree. I was saying that the main branch of House Tyrell went bleh, with Mace, Margery, Loras, and Olenna dead. Garlan and Willas are still kicking about in the books and this timeline, and I would say in the show too, but they are just either never mentioned, or get a brief, "Yeah, I had other kids too, but they didn't make my beautiful grandchildren Loras and Margery." The books also depict the Tyrell family being very large, so I am not worried that they died out, but rather, "Damn, the Queen of Thorns and her favorites are no more." Bummer. Them thieving Lannisters stole all your gold, sacked Highgarden, and stole Lord Tarly. Its would be cool if that was present in the current timeline for the RP, as it would make the love interest between Alerie and Tom that much more family blood feud angry status. 5. The Tyrell's were lordless - KK and MC, Mace dead, and who knows if any other lords with him at the Great Sept. Lord Tarly defected, with who knows what other Lords. Willas and Garlan are alive, no doubt, but they may have been abroad in the field, and not at home with their respective armies. I'd argue that the Tyrell forces suffered a bit of interior disarray from defections, combat losses, Wildfire losses, and god knows what else, which may have left the garrison defenses in either a less seasoned officer, or a grizzled old timer. A scrapping the barrel scenario. Also, the Tyrell armies may have lost men as well from any offensive or defensive operations. 6. Last, I promise - KK and MC, still a great episode, and it was awesome to see Lady Olenna tell Ser Jaime the truth, and go out like a boss. Anyhow, no worries, all speculation anyhow, but it is fun to try and figure out what the hell happened. [/hider] Everyone else, if no one has any objections, I will have Ser Aerion ask for the Big Boss Maiden's Men Female leader to yield, and if you are cool with it, I will give her a name, and perhaps have Aerion know her from times past fighting on the Stepstones?