[quote=@DarkwolfX37] Pretty sure Mania was originally a fan game they made canon, so that would give you literally no standing ground, and Arin says lots of shit about Sonic, including that he likes Unleashed even though he's playing the wii version. Tight controls on a 2d sonic game aren't something new, the Advance games had really good controls. And Mania 2? The idea that they're already planning a sequel speaks against it's quality and in favor of it being a nostalgia cash grab. Yeah the orbs might have been the best of the originals but why is it not something new and BETTER than those three horrible minigames? It's revered more because people have nostalgia for it and most 3d games were either buggy or never given a full chance because people just wanted more 2d games. The best 2d sonic games are fan made or not sonic games. Generations shouldn't have happened because it ruined so many things to the different lines of canon and really just rehashed older games, like Mania is doing at least in part. I don't like 2d Sonic when it isn't able to stand on it's own, which it hasn't been able to since Advance 2, and THAT had such cheaply done spritework that if you weren't speedrunning it would become noticeable and distracting. Sonic 4's biggest problem was that it was in two parts. [/quote] Your facts are incorrect. It was built from the ground up by a team comprised of people who originally made fan games and were really good at it. Advance games are super mediocre. Mania 2 is what everyone is asking for and not confirmed. But everything in business is a cash grab; that's how it works. And that's fine, because Mania 2 is as much a cash grab as Sonic 2 was. If you have something that works, make more. I enjoyed the orbs. But they [i]did[/i] do something new and better; that's why you have the emerald race now. The orbs are just for bonus points and whatever those medals are. 3D games were very buggy, but it's not that they weren't given a chance. People love the Sonic Adventure games because they're quality games. But then Sega started putting stupid time caps on Sonic games and ruined them with low quality, rushed products. It's not to say that they can't—Generations and Colors we're both great games (although in a way used 2D as a crutch), so it proves they can do it. But with modern 3D games, they just end up with Boost gameplay, which is getting to the point of becoming boost to win. Eh, S3&K is better than almost all fan games. You have a point, but that highlights how fans are so sick of Sega not doing their job, they're willing to do it for them. Some of the best 3D Sonic games are fanmade too, so that says something more about fans than the inherent quality of the games. The Sonic canon has never been consistent. It doesn't need to be; just have distinct lines of canon (or none outside of each individual game if it's that hard). They haven't even [i]done[/i] standalone 2D since the Advance games, unless you count Colors DS, which was also fantastic—it's 3D games that rely on 2D for bonus points and not the other way around. There's also a reason for that—Boost has you going so fast they literally cannot model a full 10 hour game in any reasonable time period; that's why Forces is doing the same thing (which I agree is kind of annoying since 2D Sonic and 3D Sonic don't mesh that well, in gameplay or as characters). My problem with the Advance games is how much looser the controls are compared to the Genesis games. Sonic 4 was trash, no argument there for 2D. Mania's erasing that from the continuation of the main line to become the true sequel to S3&K anyway. S4 has no controls to speak of and the slowest gameplay.