[quote]It's not shit talking at all. Nor is it a straw man fallacy. You're the one using straw man on my examples here. Straw man occurs in arguments, not from simply voicing an opinion. [/quote] 
You're literally voicing an opinion to make a discussion or argument. That is what we are doing. 

[quote]I'm complaining about things that are literally core to the fundamental design of the game. Your whole counter point here is "Yeah but you don't HAVE to do that" where my point is that the entire game is built around activities that are not enjoyable to interact with. When the majority of the quests are the fetch quests or the kill X quests, that doesn't refute my claim, it reinforces it since that's what I have issue with in the first place. When the game is advertised as an open world do whatever game and then the do whatever part is shallow, it's an issue with the game. [/quote] 

The core fundamental design of the game is the 
[quote]big dumb world[/quote] and usually in a game there is a learning curve and a few levels you need to grind through before you're more or less free, but as soon as you leave Helgen you have all of skyrim to explore. Skyrim is open ended on how you can complete those quests. It's not open ended because it gives you quests that no one has ever seen (hence why no one has ever seen them), it's how you do it. Dual wielding spells, using different shouts to your tactical advantage, and random encounters in a huge ass world to find them in. 

However, so as not to get off point, yes. Many of the quests are fetch or kill quests, but as I said earlier that's not in any way, shape, or form calling Skyrim bad. That's like saying "well in Halo all you do is pull the trigger." As I said, that's exaggerating the flaws to make the game seem like it's worse than it truly is, and you could do it with anything. 

[quote]
Almost all games don't have that but then again the crux here is "Yeah but you don't HAVE to". You should WANT to and Skyrim shines when you don't have it be a guided experience. Except then the shallowness of the game and its design and systems becomes obvious much sooner. The average quest in Skyrim is not memorable because they are shiny distractions that activate the carrot on a stick mentality that is core to Bethesda's design. [/quote]
[quote]At some point you have to do SOMETHING, that's the point of a game. What if you're not into the story? Because how could you be when it's badly written and uninteresting? The interesting bits of Skyrim are in its lore which is scattered in books. There isn't that much content that's worth doing. Skyrim deals in quantity but it doesn't have enough quantity to make it a balanced, enjoyable experience. If you're not into the quest, do the story quests which still contain a majority of the type of quest that turns one away from the side content. If you're not into THAT what's left? The combat? Hands down the worst part about the game? [/quote] While I can't say you're wrong because it's simply your opinion on it being uninteresting, I can say the numbers disagree with you. The number of players, the fact that it's been on the top 20 most played games of steam every day for the past 6 years, and all of the rewards it has, and the fact its still selling show it is interesting. If you don't find it interesting, just say that and don't call it inherently bad. I think the lore is Bamf and so do many.  

[quote]Now who's strawmanning? I didn't say other developers aren't like that. But that doesn't make the claims against Bethesda here any less valid. Skyrim is a functioning dumpster fire of a video game but it's still a dumpster fire. It is a stripped down experience in order to make it more immediately rewarding and less obtuse. Which is fine, it's a good financial decision and makes for a game that is easy to review, but it's like building a house on solid foundation and then using cheap lumber. Or, in the meme sense of the word, it's wide as an ocean but deep as a puddle. [/quote] 
I wasn't straw manning. 
[quote]an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.[/quote] 
I was simply saying that hit at Bethesda wasn't bringing any merit to the argument when we're talking about the game and not the developer, and if we [i]were[/i], then well, it's good to note that a lot of developers are like that. 

[hider]P.S. I do apologize if I'm seeming like an ass. Sleeping bad lately. Let me know if I'm being too curt.[/hider]