I just don't get why so many people here are so angry and rude. Take a long look at yourselves, dudes. [quote=@mdk] Let's apply that same standard to the Trump campaign. What's your definitive conclusion there? Remember, Manafort, the Trump guy they're needling for foreign involvement, is currently indicted for activities he undertook on behalf of the Ukraine, during his time with Podesta Group -- Podesta, as in Hillary's campaign manager. EDIT: as an aside, everything I just linked is a matter of record. Some of it, like Uranium One, we're still waiting o more info, but the part of the story we've got on record so far is very damning. You should definitely look into these things on your own time. I haven't even touched the conspiracy theories, credible (Seth Rich) or otherwise (comet ping pong) [/quote] The conclusion, as said on page 186, is that one of his officials has a solid, tangible link to Russian influence on the election via confession. I never claimed anything else. That has dire implications, yes, but I never suggested anything else. The Podesta point is interesting. I'm reading into it, and admittedly, there's not a whole lot that I understand about the subject. What I do know, though, is that Podesta as a whole is not Hillary's campaign manager. John Podesta is, and he is one of its two founders along with his brother, Anthony. Beyond that, I don't know how linked the two are. I don't know if there is enough information available yet to figure out if the work Manafort did was truly on behalf of Podesta Group, or if Manafort was doing a side-project of his own as he got into contact with Ukraine officials through Podesta - and only God knows how many other variables in the situation in which I am honestly not qualified to talk about. Only thing I can say is that, yes, there's a web of interconnected individuals involved. As politicians, it's expected that they have [i]some[/i] foreign ties as they talk business and politics with foreign powers. As for how many of them were able to keep them separated from our election and domestic politics is, I think, the real question. TL;DR, Jesus-fucking-Christ, I don't know. Things get complicated when you have an establishment candidate and a corporate gangster try to compete with each other. There are too many opinions in the news to get a sense of what's up and what's down. [quote=@The Harbinger of Ferocity] No comment of a mass shooting going on at a Texas church here? Nothing on how November 4th was forced to fizzle or Senator Rand Paul being assaulted by violent leftist neighbor, and not even a word of all the Saudi princes who got pinched on corruption charges, to include one who was notorious for taunting President Donald Trump and being the subject of terrorism investigations there? Color me unsurprised. Regardless, time to focus on what is known in addition to initial information gathered. The situation that occurred in Sutherland Springs, Texas was a shooter, in all black and tactical equipment, who barged into a church this Sunday some time after eleven in the morning and killed 27 of the congregation. The attacker, identified as David Patrick Kelley was a dishonorably discharged member from the United States Air Force, found guilty of assaulting his wife and his child in court martial, barred from owning or purchasing firearms, demoted to the rank of Airman Basic, and had served a year in confinement. Currently, the motive is unclear but intelligence gathered suggests it was ideological, potentially political as well; his Facebook had ties to many athiest groups and a few "RESIST" movements as well as the following statement by a group called "TOGETHER WE RISE", which Kelley was a part of: [Hider=Group Page Information] [/Hider] The weapon used, according to information as it is now, was an AR-15 style Ruger rifle, which had been customized by the attacker (perhaps to more closely resemble the M4 rifle used by the Air Force). However, the active shooter was interrupted and forced to flee - potentially suffering a mortal injury in the process - when a neighbor to the church heard the shooting and retrieved his own rifle and fired upon him. The armed citizen then harassed and forced Kelley to flee by continued shooting. Kelley is confirmed dead by law enforcement, but the investigation has escalated further, now into the hands of federal investigation. [/quote] Bro, it's alright. Some of us work. Some of us don't turn on the TV every day. Some of us prefer to listen to music as they drive. It's all OK. Not everyone knows the news as soon as it happens. That said, I did hear about the Texas shooting today. Apparently he was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force for assaulting his wife and child, tried to bribe an under-aged girl into dating him... and he could still legally buy guns. I'm not sure what allowed that, honestly. Our laws, as I think they are stated now, should've prevented that from happening. But the enforcement of those laws may have been lacking. IDK. I'm too burned out of politics to really look it up and talk too much about it at the moment. Only heard mention of the Saudi princes and Rand Paul's assault. Some people are just shitty? Don't know what to tell you, man.