[quote=@Xandrya] People claim god is righteous and omnipotent. I guess I'm a fucking idiot because my definition of what's right and wrong goes against what's preached all the time: "It's all part of his plan, trust in him and he won't fail you," etc. I'm not okay with these things happening, even though people pray against it. But somehow, Suzie prayed hard enough and x amount of times so she could get an "A" instead of a "B" on her final, and it happened. But fuck the millions of others suffering, right? I'm not here to change anyone's mind, just here to show why I think such delusion is bullshit. Also, Bob could do all those things and more, but the second he makes that prayer, he's golden. No hell for him. [/quote] This is a non-argument because you openly admit this goes against the general philosophy of "It's all part of his plan, trust in him and he won't fail you.", whatever [i]you[/i] as a mere person believe to be right or just pales utterly in comparison to that plan. That goes hand in hand with the other idea that the plan itself is beyond any measure of human comprehension or understanding. Of course you at your level may not be approving, but the greater scheme needed it to transpire for some other working component to succeed. This is not some closely kept secret of the belief system in question, which is why I call it a non-argument. As for "praying hard enough" and "enough times", the general idea is that it has nothing to do with how hard you pray or the amount of times - although this varies with the different forms of Christianity - and has significantly more to do with the idea that without God man can truly accomplish nothing of value by himself. Suzie's request might have fulfilled some specific component of the greater plan, that she could have always had it if she so much as thought to ask for it because it was already in alignment with the will; one way or another she was going to take the test and pass in this example, but because she sought out that trust and looking to God she did better. This stems off into your other commentary about suffering people, where any number of factors - just as with Suzie in the earlier example - could be. Why are people allowed to suffer in this context? For one, bringing it up you likely know the phrase that goes something along the lines of "It was never promised to be easy." and or that "There will always be suffering on Earth.", et cetera, et cetera. Not a sufficient answer, that I can recognize, but again this is not some unexplained concept in the philosophy of the religion. There are a multitude of interlocking, interwoven reasons for this that are elaborated upon. Some to this day are adamant it is "Just because of sin.", but when you ask them if that is original sin or the sins of the father or individual troubles, so on and so forth, there is not going to be a clear answer there. As for Bob, my point is going to be summarized with a "Yes, and?" When you are speaking to this religion's doctrine, you are needing to understand it with the perspective of that mankind is not the arbiter of fates. God in such a case would be the one to determine if Bob truly was repentant or if he was attempting to skirt the consequences of his actions just because he was on his deathbed. You as a person cannot determine that either, no amount of effort could you put forward to do that. So again, another non-issue in the context of how the system operates.