[@catchamber] You seem to be operating under the misguided understanding that people are somehow not servants and subjects to God in Christianity. This is more or less stated throughout with the caveat that God, specifically through the story of Jesus, wants people to be his friend as well. The liberation you are speaking to is the [i]liberation from sin and death[/i], having nothing to do with personal liberation beyond that aside from any they themselves find or work toward that is in accordance to the plan. So your argument of "not being worthy of respect" is nothing greater than an argument of, "Well I don't like that.", to which I will note, "I do not care." Not only because it is a non-argument, but because it is immature and childish of a perspective. People are not as awing or worthy of a place as they think themselves; overvalued and overrated. Continuing, the concept of free will against omnipotence and omniscience is not an actual issue. A simple example will suffice here, in that no matter what it is you choose, the greater plan has already accounted for all of your choices and will react accordingly. You might think you have won yourself a battle against God in Christianity, but all you have done is provoke a reaction. To further simplify this, it is plainly evident God operates by a laissez-faire philosophy, or that which is explicitly a "hands off"; he isn't playing chess like an amateur and moving pieces all over the board just to demonstrate he can. Oh, you chose a passage did you? Interesting one you chose, given you have clearly misunderstood what it is talking about or the scenario it is presented in. Let us try not to play the game without context next time, it only degrades your attempt. [hider=Revelations 20 NIV]Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. [b]4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.[/b]” 5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”[/hider] Strange that you chose Revelations of all examples to try that, as this sort of comes at the tail end of the entire judgment component (of which came in Revelation 20). No less, here is the part that people all love to forget, "... for the older things has passed away." and is literally titled "A New Heaven and a New Earth", followed later by “I am making everything new!”. So yes, that is accurate, it just requires the judgment of God on the soul and the death of all things to be remade anew. No small order there. Again you parrot your demand to be respected as a human being when realistically, if we are going to play by standards of Christianity which we are debating the merit of, let us not forgot the Old Testament God who could and did literally smite people. I would have to say that by contrast the fact at all he can forgive the unforgivable, let us step aside from all the Jesus examples because those are easy to go to and people subsequently ignore them because they roll their eyes at the name, and not choose to utterly destroy men as he did in the past just for speaking ill of him [i]or even looking upon him or his relics[/i] is a pretty large step forward in respect. Do you know what [i]is[/i] unworthy of respect? People who think that a force that power or grand needs to respect them. It goes to the old example of, to an ant man might well be God. He has the power to sustain them, to nurture them, to care for them, they dwell in his home and his land, but at the same time he could totally and unmercifully with little thought annihilate them. Yet the man who pays his ants no mind but avoids stepping on them, who is he? Clearly avoiding killing them is a measure respect. We could go round and round with this, but I have no intention to, I just merely enjoy a laugh at the notion people somehow deserve respect just because they are people in the context of gods and forces all powerful. To further clarify, for myself and myself alone, I view people as any other animal or any other thing, just that they have copious amounts of hubris and more intellect than wisdom. In short, your opinion of what "deserves" and is or is not "respect" holds no water in the context of this faith or debate. Obviously to an outsider, as you well seem to be, that notion is strange but in context? That man bends knee to God is no need for thought. Neither is the fact that all problems will be solved in time, which we saw part of in Revelations, it just is not on [i]your[/i] time. Again, I repeat that people are so obsessed with themselves that they erroneously believe it is about them. No, people are one component of the entire story, and the greater the crowd, the more negligible he individual. [@Xandrya] That is the issue with religion in place of faith if I can be honest. People have turned a very personal, introspective, insightful thing into an external process and an institution, a machine. This is to be expected of humans and you are honestly not the first, surely not the last, who I will hear this from. It is not a game of prayers and recitations, of attending church and trying to live the stereotypical "wholesome Christian lifestyle", but rather a thing explored by feeling and experience. In an institution you are exceedingly unlikely to experience this and instead more likely to feel mundanity. For that I am sorry, people have a terrible habit of poorly reflecting the message they intend. No less that you did it not for yourself but for someone else is, without question, a major issue as to why you probably felt nothing and are in part probably somewhat resentful. Any faith, any religion, is not so much a group exercise as it is a process meant for each person. Your attendance, essentially under duress, is going to evoke more negative than positive. Speaking from a personal perspective, the people who attend just because they are being coerced into it tend to come out of it for the worse, while those who are curious and want to know more who are brought by others to a place of worship tend to flourish there. As for people barging into lives with faith, yes, that is a sore trope, but a major factor forgotten in this day and age where man has traded his gods for his new captors of proposed knowledge and science, is that human beings cannot escape faith. It has been with them since their most primitive of existences as any amount of research into prehistory can show; man has been obsessing over the notion until recently. But now? Now people are skeptical of it and cling to their new, unofficial faiths - faith in fact alone - and snub just about anything which cannot be utterly and completely explained by fact. It creates this situation where those on either end of the isle tend to force themselves upon others; we all know that screaming athiest just as much we know the screaming Christian. We want neither at our door critiquing everything we do.