Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Gummy1295
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@Cojemo

Funny story, I submitted Longinus for the Lancer class but I originally intended on placing Hector of Troy in the Lancer of Blue spot instead. I decided against it, since we already have Achilles as a Servant and I want to help keep the Servant pool nice and diverse, with Heroic Spirits that hail from all around the world...

...That being said, I would totally revert to Hector if you polish up Paris.

...not really. cool idea tho
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Over Illusion
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@Over Illusion Damn, did you get stung by an ineptly-made CS as a child or something?


Yes.
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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Cojemo
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<Snipped quote by Cojemo>

Paris is fine in theory, but the justification for the first NP is shaky. The second one would involve Apollo interference like how Phoebus Catastrophe does, as an aside. For Sinbad, justification for the first NP.

The second NP's sublimated into EX LCK so that's pointless, and the effect itself is a no for balancing.

George is fine.


Well, my justification is that Paris is most famous for his abduction of Helen, and that in many iterations Helen left willingly with him. This was because of the deal he made with Aphrodite that would give him the love of the most beautiful woman alive.

For Sinbad, I definitely get being sketchy on the justifictaion for his first NP. I gave it to him because in his adventure he had ships, wooden troughs, and a mystical beast in the form of a roc (as an aside I was gonna give him the roc as another NP), and none of these were permanent. And yeah, I can ditch the last one and just stick to the EX luck. It's definitely pretty broken, haha.

Also, as a general question, what do you think of these ideas overall in terms of quality/how much you like them?
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Italicized
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Oops, sorry for the late reply but just got back from dying a bit at school. Almost done with all the finals and testing that we had to do so I'm here now. Hopefully I can give an adequate explanation to why I made Archer ^.^

Instinct isn't seeing the future, it's feeling the future. I recommend removing it and sticking with Clairvoyance.
Addressed Down below to prevent redundancy~ In the end though, a fluff skill and don't mind removing it


Vitrification isn't blending into the environment so much as just mental interference protection by being so calm; the emulation of PC is more akin to something that arises from the plus modifier in not!Kojiro's case, so remove that bit.
More of a fluff skill that I would of preferred the PC to be given due to the weak nature of Archer but thats fine with me. I'm fine with removing that bit although is there anyway I can ask to leave this on or making it a lesser rank to compensate or removal entirely?


The first NP doesn't feel justified in being an NP given that you're basically using an NP slot to get two extra Personal Skill slots. I'd recommend removing Instinct, redoing Clairvoyance accordingly, and subbing in Uncrowned to the then-open slot.
I thought that this Noble Phantasm would be the culmination of his legend, since the only thing that makes him remarkable is his skill. Being talented enough to defeat Arjuna in battle and have the God Krishina try to hamper Archer multiple times so that he would never surpass Arjuna, I believe this is something that should be made into a Noble Phantasm These two aspects can be combined into a single Noble Phantasm but he doesn't have many other feats.


I don't really see the point of the second Noble Phantasm, since Eternal Arms Mastership just prevents mental interference from messing with your fighting skills, but Vitrification blocks out mental interference already, so it feels very redundant. Also the same issue as above applies in that this is basically just using an NP slot as a skill slot. As an aside, even EMIYA can make his arrows into curveballs, so something like that is fairly standard for Archers.
While it may be super redundant which I agree to a degree, it would show Archer's skill and suitably fit with his legend. Vitrification would also support the other fighting skills that Archer has which will even him out in cases where he doesn't have the opportunity to use his bow. As for the physic-defying archery, I hoped to have a little more leeway with like rapid fire arrows or really accurate shots with his bow. Again just a fluff NP to highlight his skill since he doesn't have anything else suitable which can be culminated into Noble Phantasm.


So in the end, yeah Archer isn't too impressive but is a very well-rounded Servant and I'd considered him a much more limited Chiron in what he is capable of and the skill set that he has. He doesn't have much to offer except for some good character interaction with other people and perhaps be an interesting person to face of in the middle of the war but not normally someone you see as a finalist. Hopefully you address the Vitrification skill and the reasoning I had for my Noble Phantasms to simply just be skills, if not then perhaps I can make something to replace them
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Cojemo
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@Cojemo

Funny story, I submitted Longinus for the Lancer class but I originally intended on placing Hector of Troy in the Lancer of Blue spot instead. I decided against it, since we already have Achilles as a Servant and I want to help keep the Servant pool nice and diverse, with Heroic Spirits that hail from all around the world...

...That being said, I would totally revert to Hector if you polish up Paris.

...not really. cool idea tho


And thanks! I definitely get having diversity, but at the same time I love having those interactions when two characters who know each other meet, so that's why I didn't ditch Paris. I was thinking of having Billy the Kid or Arjuna as an archer as well, but decided against them. That, and Arjuna is pretty strong so he'd be a bit broken, haha.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Turboshitter
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<Snipped quote by Gummy1295>

And thanks! I definitely get having diversity, but at the same time I love having those interactions when two characters who know each other meet, so that's why I didn't ditch Paris. I was thinking of having Billy the Kid or Arjuna as an archer as well, but decided against them. That, and Arjuna is pretty strong so he'd be a bit broken, haha.


Hindi Servants > literally everything that isn’t irregular or named Gilgamesh

Hindu myths are like the Dragon Ball Z of world mythology. Just when you think they can’t get any crazier with the powerlevels, someone fires an arrow at another arrow and that somehow threatens to destroy the universe.
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Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Over Illusion
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@Cojemo
That wasn't really mental interference though, no? Something more akin to gaining Aphrodite's favor than brainwashing a girl seems to make more sense there.

The ideas themselves are fine at base, but I'd need to see the sheets proper before I make any sort of preference judgment. Listen to your heart.



@Italicized
You can remove Vitrification, but if you want the fake-PC effect then that would involve making it C+ or D+, and keep in mind the fake-PC effect would be pretty trash since PC: D is "suitable for spying" and I don't think hunting's gonna be hugely different.

An NP that's the culmination of his skill is fine, but I recommend you think of another way to express it, since again as it is not it isn't an NP. The crux of this sheet is that you could scrap both NPs, give him three Personal Skills, and there's no difference in capacity. Those don't exactly seem like Noble Phantasms, yeah?

If you want to give him EAM then you can, but again, I don't think this is an NP, it's just a skill in an NP slot, and not even a unique skill. Remember, a Noble Phantasm is the heart of the Servant, it's what makes them stand out amongst other heroes. When your Noble Phantasm is just the possession of skills that any number of other Servants could also have, it feels disingenuous.



Hindi Servants > literally everything that isn’t irregular or named Gilgamesh

Hindu myths are like the Dragon Ball Z of world mythology. Just when you think they can’t get any crazier with the powerlevels, someone fires an arrow at another arrow and that somehow threatens to destroy the universe.


Hindu Servants are strong in their legends because Hinduverse is the original shounen. That said, they're drastically nerfed in Nasuland, as they should be; for instance, a Servant's Noble Phantasm that can destroy a planet does not exist, but in our world's legends there are literally hundreds of astras that laugh at planetbusting.

With that said, the Hindu Servants we've seen are all "main characters" of the epics. Rama is arguably the strongest mortal in the history of the three worlds, depending on where in India you're asking, and Karna/Arjuna aren't far behind. It's not really fair to compare them to average Servants so much as comparing them to chief culture heroes the likes of Herc and Ozy, against whom they're perfectly reasonable.

It's also worth noting that prana consumption is very much a thing. Karna's gonna wind up killing 99.999% of Masters the second he starts fighting because he's so damn inefficient. That's why Cu's a better pick unless you're like, Illya, and even then Cu's nothing to sneeze at.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Turboshitter
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<Snipped quote by Turboshitter>

Hindu Servants are strong in their legends because Hinduverse is the original shounen. That said, they're drastically nerfed in Nasuland, as they should be; for instance, a Servant's Noble Phantasm that can destroy a planet does not exist, but in our world's legends there are literally hundreds of astras that laugh at planetbusting.

With that said, the Hindu Servants we've seen are all "main characters" of the epics. Rama is arguably the strongest mortal in the history of the three worlds, depending on where in India you're asking, and Karna/Arjuna aren't far behind. It's not really fair to compare them to average Servants so much as comparing them to chief culture heroes the likes of Herc and Ozy, against whom they're perfectly reasonable.

It's also worth noting that prana consumption is very much a thing. Karna's gonna wind up killing 99.999% of Masters the second he starts fighting because he's so damn inefficient. That's why Cu's a better pick unless you're like, Illya, and even then Cu's nothing to sneeze at.


What about Ea? Also the powerlevels of some of the astras make me lol when you remember that alongside stuff like the Brahmastra that can destroy the universe there exists an astra whose sole function is to make it rain snakes.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Over Illusion
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<Snipped quote by Over Illusion>

What about Ea? Also the powerlevels of some of the astras make me lol when you remember that alongside stuff like the Brahmastra that can destroy the universe there exists an astra whose sole function is to make it rain snakes.


Anti-World, not Anti-Planet. Important difference. Maybe if you handed it to a full Bodhisattva and ignored the "only Gil can use it back off scrubs" restriction then it could get enough charge, but if we're talking Servant Gil then yeah, no planet-busting.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Kuroyomihime
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@Gummy1295 @Over Illusion

Excuse me for meddling, but isn't it more interesting for the Spear of Longinus to be a God-killer weapon rather than an Evil-killer one? It makes perfect sense considering that it was used to put the Son of God out out of his misery that it would be a Weapon that ranks up in power against Servants with the Divinity and/or Saint personal skills. Kinda like how Enkidu works.

Maybe, t would be interesting to give it a second function, just like Gae Bolg has, too? Say... like an EX rank Anti-Unit attack that guarantees a killing blow, regardless of the target being immortal or not, with the caveat that it can only be used as in a genuine mercy kill move. Something that Longinus would do because he pities the dying target and would rather kill them than let them suffer any longer, just like he did with Jesus.

In my view, Longinus is less of a holy weapon and more of a weapon of mercy. This kind of dilutes the NP's power (considering how mercy kills are far from what you picture anyone doing a HGW), but it kinda feels more in line with the crystalization of what made it into an important item, rather than a video game-y interpretation of what it should be. Because NPs are more about "What made this be what it's?" than "What is this?" or "What should this be?"

I hope this last one made sense...

Either way, take my opinion with a grain of salt. I was just commenting at how I would try to do Longinus, if I ever chose to use him in a HGW, I'm not trying to influence your choices at all. However, if you like the idea, feel free to use it.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Yukitamas
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Coup De Grace as an EX rank NP is pretty pointless. If someone is in that situation then just stab them in the spiritual core. Same result.

There is plenty to play with, with this lance if you take the idea that it's along the lines of Rhon, the association with Jesus, the dates of the Age of Man and other such related things...

Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Over Illusion
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@Gummy1295 @Over Illusion

Excuse me for meddling, but isn't it more interesting for the Spear of Longinus to be a God-killer weapon rather than an Evil-killer one? It makes perfect sense considering that it was used to put the Son of God out out of his misery that it would be a Weapon that ranks up in power against Servants with the Divinity and/or Saint personal skills. Kinda like how Enkidu works.

Maybe, t would be interesting to give it a second function, just like Gae Bolg has, too? Say... like an EX rank Anti-Unit attack that guarantees a killing blow, regardless of the target being immortal or not, with the caveat that it can only be used as in a genuine mercy kill move. Something that Longinus would do because he pities the dying target and would rather kill them than let them suffer any longer, just like he did with Jesus.

In my view, Longinus is less of a holy weapon and more of a weapon of mercy. This kind of dilutes the NP's power (considering how mercy kills are far from what you picture anyone doing a HGW), but it kinda feels more in line with the crystalization of what made it into an important item, rather than a video game-y interpretation of what it should be. Because NPs are more about "What made this be what it's?" than "What is this?" or "What should this be?"

I hope this last one made sense...

Either way, take my opinion with a grain of salt. I was just commenting at how I would try to do Longinus, if I ever chose to use him in a HGW, I'm not trying to influence your choices at all. However, if you like the idea, feel free to use it.


An NP's a recreation of feat, yeah, but as far as this is concerned I'm refraining from injecting how I think this should be utilized. I've made a couple of sheets that use Longinus in the past, but in the end if someone can make a sheet for it that they have justified and they're happy with it, no sense to say no.

With that said, @Gummy1295, Fiddle and I have been talking and given Longinus's indeterminate status in canon since we know it's in the same light as Rhon but not if it's a pillar or not, we might need to bar it.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Cojemo
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Sinbad the Sailor



Class: Rider
Gender: Male
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral

Personality:
An enigmatic figure who's ventured to far off lands and returned when no one else could ever dream of doing so, Sinbad is very much like the sea he's sailed on. While many believe the mans unmatched skills with a sword is what made him the legend he is today, he'd be the first to tell you this is not the case. He is an eccentric and brash man who never learns to keep his mouth shut, yet despite this his overall respect and friendliness to those who deserve it have won over many. His attitude of always going with his heart and never faltering is admirable, even if it's gotten him into more trouble than a normal man can keep track of. Failing to think before acting, Sinbad merely follows what feels right to him and what he wants to do, even if this goes directly against logic presented straight to his face. Honestly, he just doesn't care, and it is this attitude that will often put him and his allies into precarious positions that only his quick wit and ungodly luck can overcome.

He's a very relaxed individual even in the face of death, and will never back down no matter the circumstances. Basically, good luck stopping him once he sets his mind to something. Death does not scare Sinbad, and in fact seems to invigorate the adventurous sailor even more so when he stand so close to its black door. He is not afraid to get down and dirty and commit heinous acts to survive, such as murdering innocents for food until he could escape his tomb on his fourth voyage. However, this does not mean he has no conscience. Sinbad, who made his name through his many voyages, does not consider himself to be the great hero everyone else claims he is. Every death caused by his actions weighs heavily on his soul, but he refuses to ever give up or else all their deaths would have been for nothing. In the end his goals center around himself, but his honor and respect for those around him are not to be understated. Once a coward only out to save his own skin, he'd happily throw himself onto the front lines of battle if it meant protecting even one of his crew.

History:
There are very few that haven't heard the name Sinbad and at least know of his seven fantastical voyages to uncharted lands. However, few know of the sailors actual origins. Truth be told, even Sinbad isn't clear on where exactly he came from. What's certain is this: Sinbad grew up on the streets of Baghdad broke and alone, with no one but a crotchety old man to look after him. The young boy was forced to steal, lie, and fight for his food, and whatever he got he'd be lucky if he even got to keep 1/10th of it. You see, his caretaker was a heavy gambler and owed abused Sinbad constantly, threatening to beat him if he didn't comply. However, one thing the old man hung over his head the most was the threat of throwing him out to sea. He told horror stories of the monsters and horrors that were to be found across the deep blue, and with this deep sense of fear instilled into him Sinbad scratched and clawed so he could survive.

One day, Sinbad's caretaker fell ill, and not long after passed away. While it hurt to lose the only person he ever knew, Sinbad never mourned for the man. Even if he'd wanted to, though, he wouldn't have had the time as following his caretakers death a few days later was a knock at Sinbads door. Being the closest thing the man had to a family, Sinbad was held responsible to pay for his debt. After many months of harassment, beatings, torture, and being worked to the bone, the boy made a deal: if he could be given enough funds to acquire a ship and crew, he'd go out and return with enough treasure to pay off the debt ten fold. And thus, at the young age of 14, Sinbad became the captain of a crew twice his age, his legend just beginning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinbad_the_Sailor

Weapon: Scimitar

Parameters:
STR: C
CON: B
AGI: B
MGI: C
LCK: EX

Class Skills:
Magic Resistance: B
Having encountered and survived encounters with an array of mythical beasts, Sinbad has over his many voyages learned and gained a natural resistance against strong magical spells.

Riding: A+
Despite how he may appear, Sinbad is a natural born Rider, and can ride nearly anything with great talent, from horses to griffons.

Personal Skills:
Allure of Kings: C
Sinbad has ventured far an wide to many lands, often running into an assortment of animals and beasts. However, one common occurrence on these adventures is an encounter with the ruler of the land, in which Sinbad easily befriends and gains favor. Due to this, Allure of Kings grants Sinbad a unique charisma when dealing with kings or queens, allowing him to more easily charm them with his wit. This doesn't mean they won't attack him however, just that they will find him unusually likable and may spare him if they are the type.

Independent Action: C
A rebel at heart, keeping Sinbad under control is no easy feat. Thus, Sinbad can act on his own without his master for a full day unless he needs magic for his Noble Phantasm.

Instinct: C
While his luck has plenty to do with his success, it would not be fair to discount Sinbad's natural instinct. He can easily sense what the best course of action would be from observing a situation and how to achieve such.

Golden Rule: B
Each adventure accrued Sinbad with more and more gold, making him so wealthy he gets bored of having everything he could ever desire quite frequently.

Voyager of the Storm: B
Sailing the seas and managing a crew has given Sinbad this unique composite skill, though his penchant for losing both has the rank slightly lowered.

Noble Phantasm(s):

The Scavenger of the Sea Makes his Own Mount
Shipwrecked Sailor


Rank: B+
Type: Anti-Unit
Description:
Shipwrecked Sailor is a representation of how on many of his Voyages into the unknown, Sinbad was left without his original boat and was forced to make due with what was around him for transportation. While the Rider never had a dedicated mount, he often used wooden troughs, rafts, mythical sea horses, and gigantic rocs to survive. Each one of these improvised rides he rode with supreme skill and precision.

Manifesting as an ability, any ride or vehicle that Sinbad sits upon that would be commonly referred to as a 'ride' is immediately transformed into a D rank Noble Phantasm. It's modified and shaped to fit his needs, often being adorned in gold and jewels. None of his rides in the past were known for their combat ability, but there is one thing quite common when it comes to his ships: they often were involved in destructive crashes. While rides under the influence of Shipwrecked Sailor don't gain any combat enhancements, their durability is enhanced enough to withstand attacks on par with or weaker than a C rank. Their max speed is greatly enhanced and they are able to pull of stunts otherwise impossible, but easily the best modification is the ability to crash into an enemy Servant. When desired, Sinbad can trigger a 'destructive crash', jumping off before his vehicle collides and causing a massive explosion.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Cojemo
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Here is my Sinbad sheet. Note that I may add the Roc as a mount that he can summon, but this is the main stuff. His current NP is his main function and I feel both his personality and history can justify why he'd have it, especially since he's known as 'the sailor' yet never had a specific ship or mount.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Over Illusion
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@Cojemo
Keep in mind Riding A won't allow for Phantasmal Species.

Golden Rule to B.

Independent Action to C since there's no backup from the Class Container; if he was Archer then B would be fine.

Why doesn't he have Voyager? Seems like something that's more or less mandatory.

Personal Skill cap is three.

The NP itself is fine on face, but I'll have to do my own research since I'm not familiar enough with Sinbad's legend to say decisively. Don't try and do dumb stuff like jumping onto a Servant's shoulders and trying to activate this.

Since this "destructive crash" is a Broken Phantasm, expect prana costs to be significant.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Cojemo
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@Cojemo
Keep in mind Riding A won't allow for Phantasmal Species.

Golden Rule to B.

Independent Action to C since there's no backup from the Class Container; if he was Archer then B would be fine.

Why doesn't he have Voyager? Seems like something that's more or less mandatory.

Personal Skill cap is three.

The NP itself is fine on face, but I'll have to do my own research since I'm not familiar enough with Sinbad's legend to say decisively. Don't try and do dumb stuff like jumping onto a Servant's shoulders and trying to activate this.

Since this "destructive crash" is a Broken Phantasm, expect prana costs to be significant.


Boosted Riding to A+ as he's shown the ability to ride those.

I also gave him Voyager of the Storm, as honestly I simply forgot about it. :P

I also clarified in his NP that it only works on things that are commonly referred to as 'mounts' or 'rides', so no servant exploding shenanigans.

Lastly, I'm having trouble deciding which 2 skills to drop currently. While Golden Rule is close to useless it does define him pretty well, and Independent Action and Instinct are also pretty good character skills. Do you have any suggestions as to which I should drop?
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Over Illusion
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Lastly, I'm having trouble deciding which 2 skills to drop currently. While Golden Rule is close to useless it does define him pretty well, and Independent Action and Instinct are also pretty good character skills. Do you have any suggestions as to which I should drop?


I'd say to think of it from a perspective of theme. You want the full kit to sort of tell the character's story, so think about which ones are most integral to the story.
Hidden 6 yrs ago 6 yrs ago Post by Gummy1295
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@Over Illusion @ADamnFiddle

I understand the issue revolving Longinus and his Excalibur-ranked Holy Spear. I'm submitting a third attempt for the spot of Lancer of Blue, since I'm pretty sure you have no intentions of accepting my latest Servant application. When I'm done with the character sheet for this guy, I'll edit it into this post.

SPOILER ALERT: I'll be submitting a sheet for Don Quixote... As a Lancer, not a Rider.

See you in a few!

EDIT: Here it is. Let me know if I missed anything.



@Gummy1295
Alrighty. Apologies for the snags you've been running into during the process.


Don't mention it. A huge part of it is my fault for doggedly insisting on writing sheets for a particular class, anyway ^^;
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Over Illusion
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@Gummy1295
Alrighty. Apologies for the snags you've been running into during the process.
Hidden 6 yrs ago Post by Turboshitter
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canipleaseputthisinthecharactertabnow:

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