[quote=@catchamber]It seems like it'd be much less of a hassle to deal with a developed North Korea that's free of human rights abuses, especially if they engage in meaningful and high volume trade with the rest of the world. Such a drastic change in their way of life would probably discourage them from being hostile, and might actually set a positive precedent for its future leaders.[/quote]

One of us is putting the cart before the horse and I'm not honestly sure which of us it is. DPRK has no human rights and engages with no meaningful trade. We would very much like them to not abuse human rights and DO have meaningful trade. Which one is the avenue to the other, and/or are they both either? That's a sentence, shut up. POINT BEING -- that version of Korea you're picturing is awesome. Also, I don't think we have a responsibility to get them there. Our responsibility (right now anyway) begins and ends with their ability to annihilate our citizens and allies. If we stray too far from that, we're nation-building. Or imperialists. Or, ya know, pick a word.

[quote]It's not about the UN, but the capabilities of its member states. China's far from being self sufficient, and the rest of the world can make China's economy suffer if they get to that point before China does. This is ignoring the potential pain that can be caused through espionage, memetics, and other nonviolent methods.[/quote]

Well whatever is being done at this exact moment is working, and we haven't bombed China, so I guess just let it roll. I'm just saying, the [i]concept[/i] of possible repercussions hasn't stopped them in the past. Maybe Twitter is Chinese kryptonite.

[quote]I can't access the article, and I'd rather not guess about what you're referring to. Mind copy-pasting that section?[/quote]

WEIRD, this morning there was no paywall and now it wants me to subscribe. Well the gist is, we've got some exposure to the average North Korean based on who flees the country. Generally who comes across isn't the upper-crust of society, so grain of salt, but the state of education and labor skills is preeeetty (unremarkably) lackluster. Three generations of Kims have poisoned the learning well. It'll be decades before they're a self-sustaining economy..... frankly that might even happen faster with a Kim overseeing the process, if he could be compelled to do so. Basically the article was talking about what we've learned from the ROK trying to help DPRK refugees adapt and adjust, and the societies are drastically, often violently, different, to a generally depressing degree.

[quote]Oh? In that case, please tell Betsy to answer her goddamn phone.[/quote]

She says "get a Skype account you peasant." What's a skype?