[quote=@tex]
	Until I see some solid sources to back up the 'gamers hate women and gays' stigma/agenda, I won't buy into the notion that it's commonplace. To hold the entirety of society to the standards of a verbal minority seems extremely shortsighted to me.[/quote]

It's really not as much of a minority as you want to think. No, not [i]every[/i] gamer hates women and gays but you'd have to be putting your head in the sand to not have seen negative outlash towards games with minorities or queer characters at the focal point growing over the years. GamerGate gave a platform and a voice to what used to just be fringe sorts. 


[quote]It's like battling propaganda with propaganda at that point. Social media is a terrible source to determine the consensus on the gaming community, especially when the vast majority of gamers aren't verbal on the subject at all. It might have something to do with [i]how belligerent[/i] the environment is, it might not. The numbers are evidence enough to dismiss most of it as hearsay though.[/quote] 

The gamers that [i]are[/i] verbal on the subject are the group being discussed here. There are people who are gamers who only play Madden every year and don't even know what an E3 or a Naughty Dog or whatever is. It's not hard to find reactions and comments from people who honestly believe that the current trend of 'diversity' is killing the industry and creativity and that it's some leftist plot. Just because they post about it in comments or in threads doesn't invalidate that. You can't dismiss people's comments and criticisms just because they hide behind a username and limited characters. Like it or not, social media is an absolutely valid place to gauge reactions from consumers, as are public forums. Game developers don't have social media accounts just to post hot memes. 

	[quote]So, when I hear you say something like "current sociopolitical climate", I imagine you're basing your ideas on evidence stemming from the cavalcade of idiots on social media, all of which are very likely to make up a crippling minority of the overall video game market, let alone Naughty Dog's market alone. Despite this [i]cavalcade of idiots[/i] shouting nonsense from left field, the sociopolitical climate is not entirely defined by their objections, nor it it significantly affected by the equally belligerent commentary from objectionable individuals. Social media itself is far too vast and divided to analyze without falling into the trap of confirmation bias. The 'loudest' and more popular opinions often drown out the quieter opinions, even if the [i]quieter opinions[/i] make up the majority, and/or do in fact, shape the market.[/quote]

I'm basing my ideas on more than just social media. It's articles about the disproportionate amount of female leads shown at a press conference and people bending over backwards to discredit the numbers. It's videos where commentators make a point to praise or condemn the diversity and the expected arguments from the peanut gallery. It's the fact that Pete Hines says "Fuck Nazis" on stage and this is seen as controversial - and not because he said 'fuck'. It's entire threads and topics dedicated to criticizing companies for pandering as well as criticizing companies for [i]not doing enough[/i] or articles about how games are afraid to say anything.

	[quote]In a nutshell, the 'Gay is not normal' and 'LOOK AT HOW GAY IT IS<3<3<3' dichotomy, is arguably referring to an infinitesimal minority. That seems to be the case with most of what you're referring to. I would have to go do a fair amount of research to provide evidence that this has not affected game sales significantly in the past decade, but I'm pretty certain it hasn't. My point though, is that I think the verbal minority is a self-fulfilling prophesy that will not change, so there's no point in considering it as anything important, regardless of how annoying it might be. Additionally, they do not play a major role in defining the overall socioeconomic climate.
[/quote]

It's not nearly as small as you're trying to suggest. It's easy to say it's small if you discount a major source of discourse related to the media. This has been a talking point in games for years at this point and it's no coincidence that the conversation flares up around this time. There was literally a patch to change dialog in Mass Effect Andromeda because an actual minority pointed out the awful pandering and poorly handled transgender character. [i]On social media[/i]. 1.2 billion people are classified as gamers while 700 million of them are online, males age 15-24 make up the largest demographic. This doesn't get into the people that play a phone game for thirty minutes on the bus - they're gamers too. Limiting that to strictly Americans, as of 2015 more than 150 million Americans fall under the umbrella of gamers. 150 million people aren't buying games. For numbers, on console in the first week of Far Cry 5 (one of the highest selling games of the year thus far) the number of copies sold in America was roughly 981,000. 

How many of those 980 thousand people have social media accounts? Let's say twenty percent. That's still right around 196 thousand people. If that seems like a generous percentage remember that the PR fiasco that was Battlefront 2's 'pride and accomplishment' led to 680,000 people voicing their dislike on a public forum. For the record, Battlefront 2 on console globally sold about 870,000 copies week one, about 546,000 of which were U.S. sales. The game also went on to be a bit of a sales disappointment for the company. Granted it's just one example but given that three of the most controversial games of last year (Andromeda, Battlefront 2, Shadow of War) all went on to under perform, well...the minority of gamers that stay informed via social media or the like are still having an influence in sales figures. 

Game companies may not advertise to the social media generation (though clearly some portion of their marketing does given the rise of Twitch and companies using it as a vehicle for streamers to show their game) but social media is definitely involved in the industry. Video games don't get the constant television advertising that movies so frequently do and social media and high traffic websites catered around gaming is absolutely used in advertising. 
 
	[quote]I think that both sides of this crappy dichotomy are a trap. I mean, the discourse itself [i]isn't a dichotomy[/i] to begin with. But these two points of view have become something popular and dramatic that people, both ignorant and educated, fall into due to how difficult it is to efficiently analyze something as complex as the gaming market. It's not uncommon to jump to conclusions based on hearsay and the practices of companies that are trying to become more inclusive, and sometimes it's not [i]inaccurate[/i] either, but I certainly don't think the current climate is as bad as you frame it.[/quote]

The climate is more vocal now because video games are mainstream and it's easier for people to engage with developers and creators and each other.  Not every game drums up heated topics but there's absolutely more discourse and discussion of the social and political ramifications of games now then in years past. It's not a new thing, it's been getting louder since 2014 and most people have just gotten better at tuning it out for their own sanity.