[@catchamber] You actually answered a straightforward question, simply wishing to get caught up to speed, and not have to read through an endless wave of braindead quips. 10/10 So, just going by the vague notion addressed. I want to make sure we're clear on something. We're aware that capitalism can exist with social programs, and still not be socialism. Not everything paid for or serviced by the government makes something socialist. I know (or at least remember) you seem to disagree that socialism by its very definition is the Karl Marx, building block of all current and previous socialist countries, style of abolition of private propriety and elimination of private business that instead becomes owned by 'the worker'" So maybe it would benefit everyone here, to classify exactly what socialism is for you? In detail, so we can understand why you don't believe that both of these things diametrically opposed one another. Because you can't really have Karl Marx's ideas mesh easily into one's free-market.