I hate Star Wars but I can't help myself from talking about it. It is my Sisyphean torture. I appreciate that it's been civil which seems like a rarity within Stahr Wahrs. Of course I do agree that Rey's character isn't as well defined as the OT trio, but she's at least above prequel tier. And I get it, I get the issues many have, there's a lot of greater issues with the sequels (like a lack of a defined plan), but episode 8 was like a reminder why I thought Star Wars was neato skeeto. That said, once more around the horn.

[quote=@ArenaSnow]

Luke was more familiar with the process and mechanics by that time, despite his injuries, and the span of distance was way, way shorter.[/quote]

I'm not sure distance matters quite as much. Rey was in fight or flight mode and the lightsaber 'called to her' so the script said earlier. The Force doesn't mean someone needs training to tap into it - Broom Kid is proof enough of that - but given that Rey is 'embracing her destiny' with that moment, it's equal parts dramatic coda and character defining. Luke was under duress and struggled and Rey struggled as well - against Kylo who was also trying to get the saber. 


[quote]Aside from the implication (at least, as I think) that there was more practice than was shown on screen, it's a heck of a lot more than nothing at all and a better background for using tweaks of the force than, again, nothing that counts as tangible practice.[/quote] 

I don't think there's much of an issue with a lack of 'practice' given that all we ever see Luke do on screen is deflect bolts, move his saber, and do some gymnastics with rocks. Episode 6 has the implication that he went back for more training but the same isn't exactly said for episode 5. Luke's training was never really the vital point so much as it was expansion of the Force - that even someone like Yoda could do extraordinary things. Luke in the movies isn't exactly the most competent of Jedi even with his masters being two of the best. 

[quote]I'm curious if you clicked the link.[/quote]

I clicked it, yes, but I didn't watch it. I intend to if only because it's probably a perspective that I can't exactly have. 


[quote]Why not make a more intelligent character in the first place?[/quote]

You'll have to ask Kasdan and Abrams for that. I don't disagree, which is why Snoke dying is the best thing they could've done. 


[quote]The former elements were learning experiences that he ultimately took from later on, and his nature was a heck of a lot more open than the prequel jedi who failed to do any form of adapting at all. Carries on the tradition indeed.[/quote] 

The Jedi are constant failures no matter what point of history it is, so Luke does carry on the tradition of failing and learning from it only when an opportune moment arises to do so. It's what makes his ultimate fate in TLJ so satisfying because he learns his greatest lesson and does the single coolest thing a Jedi has done on screen. Luke was awesome. 


[quote]Great, you have your 'force is stupid' movies. I'll isolate them from the ones that give the marginal attempt to take themselves seriously in the first place, despite plentiful flaws and the fast and loose nature of Lucas lore (probably why there's so many ideas of what's canon in the first place, ei?)[/quote] 

Well it's not a movie but a game, and it does take itself and the mythos seriously. Some would say too seriously. 

[quote]I think you mean anything more, as anything less would pretty much make it a shapeless blob of 'meh, something happened, it's magic, whatever' [s]which Lucas may have bought into for 9 year old Anakin[/s]. At that point it's all such an obvious load of bullshit you might as well host a public roleplay with everyone as jump-in and latch star wars to the name to see what comes of it. Anything more would define rules, standards for how it would work, systems of balancing, practice resulting in greater manifest of abilities, etc. An expansion to the potential of the ideas presented in the originals and... somewhat... carried on in the prequels. Naturally, everyone takes it to different extents. Everyone has their interpretation. All we'll end up arguing is how we think the Force should operate when the only boundaries to exist rest in the interpretations of the originals, built up with the prequels (or not, as some see fit to interpret), and any further content from there ranging from the self contradictory Legends book material to comics to Clone Wars/Rebels to Disney's line of interpretation. It's pick and choose in the end. But I'd prefer things in the main line to put a little more energy into staying persistent with itself. And honestly, I have as many problems with the prequels, perhaps more, on this count than anything else produced for Star Wars. 
[/quote]

I think a major problem is because The Force is so ill defined that it creates situations where expanding it just creates more problems. Star Wars works best when it's not taken super seriously, but that doesn't mean serious and good stories can't be told within universe.