[@Dynamo Frokane]

	Initially both of you. But Mara's pointed out that she's not familiar with Feminist theory, so now it's only you. Especially when you're saying things like:

[quote]Kill Bill is a feminist movie.[/quote]

	Through a certain scope, sure, you could argue that the themes in Kill-Bill are feminist. But your argument would be flimsy and superficial, as the political definition of feminism is fairly subjective depending on who you're asking, just like with any political body. When people start throwing subjective labels on films that are already entirely subjective with an objective nature in their assertion, it's extremely irritating. What bothers me about it is how inane the idea of labeling a movie like [i]kill Bill[/i] as a feminist picture really is. I don't believe for a second that a movie about a woman seeking [u][b]brutal vengeance[/b][/u] on an organization that wronged her severely, while working under a director who had little regard for her life, is a feminist feature. I don't think there was any Authorial intent - which is largely irrelevant mind you - from Quinton, I don't think there's any political backing to that the notion, and I certainly don't think that any competent feminists would like to identify their movement with a movie about a [b]woman[/b] brutally murdering people for her independence. I think that would be short sighted and fucked up, in its entirety. But hey, if you're trying to criticize Feminism by using Kill Bill as an example, you're not only exercising a prejudice against the politics, but you're disregarding the core theories of feminism, all of which have nothing to do with [i]the movie at large.[/i] If Kill Bill was a feminist movie, it would emphasize some level of restraint in its absurdity. Or would you say the film is a satire? Because I sure as hell wouldn't.

[quote]Kill Bill is almost so effortlessly feminist, that it doesn't even need to promote the fact that it is. It doesn't explain to you why these women are all super independent, extremely powerful, and are able to lead and make decisions on their own accord. It just presents them to you and expects you to accept it.[/quote]

	[i]This isn't a feminist theory, it's a single feminist ideal that could be applied to a metric fuck-ton of female leads nowadays.[/i] Using metrics like this to measure whether a movie is feminist or not is an extremely poor choice. It's too general, and it implies a nebulous spectrum that generalizes feminism to the point where the 'sub genre' becomes completely fucking pointless. If Kill Bill is a feminist movie, what's the [i]central theme[/i]? If you're passionate enough - angry enough - you can be independent? You should be aggressive as a woman? Trusting people is stupid? Swords are cool? Where's the Pathos that feminism [i]wants[/i] to be associated with? Kill-Bill is a great movie, but it's an absolutely fucking terrible example of feminist ideals, and [i]should not[/i] be seen as such, especially considering its genre and tone. Jesus Christ, man.

	The themes you're likely referring to have much less to do with [i]feminism,[/i] and far more to do with the environments found in [i]abusive relationships.[/i] I haven't seen Kill Bill in a decade though, so I don't recall the movie as clearly as I should.

	I'm not sure what you think feminism or feminist themes really are, or just how liberal you are in applying your ideas to media, but they don't apply to every single movie with female leads, or those that emphasize the empowerment of women. To assert such is nonsense. Feminism is a political body that often gets associated with progressive themes more often than it should, because it was a successful progressive movement once upon a time. But I can see why so many people are confused, and immediately label everything with any shred of female empowerment as 'feminist' when it fucking isn't. I wish people would stop reducing the movement to such a simple subset of superficial definitions just because feminism has been over-saturated with idiots along with most other social justice movements.

	Suffragette is the closest thing to a 'feminist movie' I've been shown based on the summary alone. It is quite [b]literally [/b]a movie that frames [b]first wave feminist struggles[/b]. Whether or not it does so in a positive fashion, I can't say. I haven't watched it and I'm not particularly interested in the subject matter. First wave feminism is self explanatory and the political movement has become just as vapid as every other political label on the [i]'I can't think for myself'[/i] aile lately. The likelihood of conversing with a self proclaimed Feminist that knows what they're talking about is just as low as coming across a democrat or a republican that doesn't just parrot media outlets.

	And...

	[quote]whether or not that is a feminist agenda movie is sort of up for discussion[/quote]

	Unless one knows exactly what the political feminist agenda is, which I [i]highly doubt,[/i] it's very likely that referring to the feminist agenda is a meme. There are also no [i]feminist agenda[/i] movies, so to speak. Some movies may line up with the feminist Agenda, but to claim that there's any political influence there is quite silly.

	Or maybe there really are signs of the feminist agenda poisoning movies after all. Maybe there's also mind control drugs in our drinking water, chem-trails over our heads, and bugs in our bedrooms. 

	[sub]Illuminati 5ever death to America alla-hoo ackbar.[/sub]