[quote=@tex]


Through a certain scope, sure, you could argue that the themes in Kill-Bill are feminist. But your argument would be flimsy and superficial, as the political definition of feminism is fairly subjective depending on who you're asking, just like with any political body. When people start throwing subjective labels on films that are already entirely subjective with an objective nature in their assertion, it's extremely irritating. What bothers me about it is how inane the idea of labeling a movie like [i]kill Bill[/i] as a feminist picture really is. I don't believe for a second that a movie about a woman seeking [u][b]brutal vengeance[/b][/u] on an organization that wronged her severely, while working under a director who had little regard for her life, is a feminist feature. I don't think there was any Authorial intent - which is largely irrelevant mind you - from Quinton, I don't think there's any political backing to that the notion, and I certainly don't think that any competent feminists would like to identify their movement with a movie about a [b]woman[/b] brutally murdering people for her independence. I think that would be short sighted and fucked up, in its entirety. But hey, if you're trying to criticize Feminism by using Kill Bill as an example, you're not only exercising a prejudice against the politics, but you're disregarding the core theories of feminism, all of which have nothing to do with [i]the movie at large.[/i] If Kill Bill was a feminist movie, it would emphasize some level of restraint in its absurdity. Or would you say the film is a satire? Because I sure as hell wouldn't.

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You keep bringing up brutal murder as if it's relevant. I can only come to the conclusion that you are conflating what [i]you[/i] personally think feminists like and don't like and what a feminist theme is.

Also Quentin  having an explicitly feminist or non feminist agenda is also irrelevant. He could have made it feminist by accident for all I care, but that does not change the content of the film or characters.

I agree with you that Kill Bill only explores some aspects of feminism and not all of them, and yes feminism does differ in different schools of thought, but the basic idea of raising women status up to that of men's is very prevalent in Kill Bill at least as far in the context of most blockbuster movies. There are no typical 'hollywood female' roles in this film, all the characters behave independently of their gender. The fact that main characters are female are barely ever brought up.  They are treated and portrayed as equally as men would be without being boiled down to simple character tropes including 'love interest' or 'bitchy friend'. 

The only aspect of ' male control' you could say is Bill as the 'director' of her life. But it's explicitly stated in Vol 2 is that she [i]chose[/i] the life of the assassin specifically because she gets a thrill from traveling over the world and killing people for money. She was also in love with Bill because they had that in common. The moment she realized she was pregnant she [i]chose[/i] to leave the life on her own accord without giving a single shit what Bill wanted and started a new life. His scorn for losing her in that manner is what lead to the events of the film.  Again, whether intentional or not, those ARE feminist themes.


Feminism is an ideology first, then a movement, both of which have obvious political implications but I'm not sure about categorizing feminism as a 'political body' any more than I would categorize 'men's issues' or 'egalitarianism' as a political body. Suffragette first and foremost a biopic about feminism, it obviously has the [i]topic[/i] of feminism, but that on its own isn't the same as having a feminist story or exploring feminist themes.

A good comparison is the film Lincoln, it's about the Civil War but we wouldn't call it a 'War Movie' because the topic of the film and the narrative are two different things.

Also Django Unchained has slavery as a topic, but it's a Western, not a 'Slave Movie' like 12 years a slave or birth of a nation would be.

And you need to tone down the aggressive and overly confrontational language, we are just talking about films here. If you are passionate about feminism, great. Try to express yourself in a slightly more civil way or we can go to the political thread.