[@Fabricant451]

	I didn't know feminist film theory was a school of study, let alone what it implies to be core themes. That's my mistake. I would still disagree with the philosophy of feminist film theory as a whole if that were the case. But I suppose that's another topic of discussion entirely.

	It also seems I don't remember the movie's plot as clearly as I thought. I could have sworn that the child played a major role, and assumed so under the pretense that, if it hadn't, then the main character's motivations suddenly become absurd. And they really are, even within the context of the film. Suddenly her quest to seek out and destroy the vipers is absolutely idiotic and spiteful. I don't think for a second that any notion of 'acquiring freedom' validates her choices as a character, at that point. But then the topic of conversation changes once again.

	 I would have to watch the movies again to confirm, but much of what comes of it would likely be nitpicking. Regardless, I still don't see it as a feminist film, nor do I see any value to labeling it as such. It's as I mentioned earlier, I think that the aforementioned criteria being used to label it as such are inane, and unproductive.

[@Dynamo Frokane]

	[quote]But none of these things, (violence, revenge, personal justice) on their own run counter current to the idea of feminism[/quote]

	I... Disagree entirely. If themes like [b]violence[/b], [b]Revenge,[/b] [b]brutality[/b], and [b]Absurdity[/b] - all of which are extremely prominent in Kill Bill if I'm remembering that much correctly - do not run against the moral foundations of feminism, are you criticizing the movement as a whole? Isn't feminism, even as an ideology, about bringing women up to the same legal/social standing as men? I would say themes like this run [i]in the exact opposite[/i] direction of feminist morals. If you would argue otherwise, I think we're in a baffling disagreement. Although I would associate themes like this with the feminist movement if I [b]validated idiotic behavior,[/b] I don't think the movement is defined by particular forms of activism and incomprehensibly selfish morals. I think labeling these themes as [b]neutral[/b] is extremely short sighted, and harmful. Clashing negative themes with ideas like [i]the empowerment of women[/i] does not create a positive dialogue. They inspire a corrupt perspective. It may also be why the natural reaction to [i]'feminist themes'[/i] is negative, but that's another topic entirely.

	[quote]why would violence. selfishness, justice go against feminism?[/quote]

	Violence should be obvious. Feminism's entire tone seems to shift over the years, but generally speaking, it existed to bring women up to the same legal/social standing as men. Whether or not you can actually manufacture a nebulous and short-sighted concept like 'social equality' is besides the point. In this case, violence acts as a direct counter to the goals set in place here. Would you argue the opposite is true? Or that Violence, when paired with feminism, has no effect on the effects as a result? I'm open to hearing more on that.

	Selfishness is also contradictory to the united goal that feminism seems to portray. It is a movement directed to help - at least in its early stages - [b]all women[/b]. So in what way do selfish goals enforce this idea? Wouldn't selfish behavior, in a similar fashion to violence, run against these goals? Or would you say that feminism is in fact a selfish movement? Or again, do you think that this has no effect?

	Justice is a tricky topic. Inherently, I believe that justice is [i]idiotic.[/i] There's nothing to be gained from justice, especially when it's hard to define what justice really is. Although I wouldn't argue that this runs counter to feminist themes, I do not feel that the justice being portrayed in Kill Bill is [i]anything remotely reasonable[/i]. It is justice built on spite and revenge. I could see the reasoning here if the main character's motivations were supported by the love of her daughter, but when you eliminate that aspect, there [i]isn't[/i] anything pushing her forward except for the narrow desire for revenge. The only reason that the movie works then, is because of how absolutely absurd the universe is.

[quote]This was the film's way of cleverly subverting the whole 'motherly instinct' trope.[/quote]

	Clever?