[quote=@tex] I... Disagree entirely. If themes like [b]violence[/b], [b]Revenge,[/b] [b]brutality[/b], and [b]Absurdity[/b] - all of which are extremely prominent in Kill Bill if I'm remembering that much correctly - do not run against the moral foundations of feminism, are you criticizing the movement as a whole? Isn't feminism, even as an ideology, about bringing women up to the same legal/social standing as men? I would say themes like this run [i]in the exact opposite[/i] direction of feminist morals. If you would argue otherwise, I think we're in a baffling disagreement. Although I would associate themes like this with the feminist movement if I [b]validated idiotic behavior,[/b] I don't think the movement is defined by particular forms of activism and incomprehensibly selfish morals. I think labeling these themes as [b]neutral[/b] is extremely short sighted, and harmful. Clashing negative themes with ideas like [i]the empowerment of women[/i] does not create a positive dialogue. They inspire a corrupt perspective. It may also be why the natural reaction to [i]'feminist themes'[/i] is negative, but that's another topic entirely. Violence should be obvious. Feminism's entire tone seems to shift over the years, but generally speaking, it existed to bring women up to the same legal/social standing as men. Whether or not you can actually manufacture a nebulous and short-sighted concept like 'social equality' is besides the point. In this case, violence acts as a direct counter to the goals set in place here. Would you argue the opposite is true? Or that Violence, when paired with feminism, has no effect on the effects as a result? I'm open to hearing more on that. Selfishness is also contradictory to the united goal that feminism seems to portray. It is a movement directed to help - at least in its early stages - [b]all women[/b]. So in what way do selfish goals enforce this idea? Wouldn't selfish behavior, in a similar fashion to violence, run against these goals? Or would you say that feminism is in fact a selfish movement? Or again, do you think that this has no effect? Justice is a tricky topic. Inherently, I believe that justice is [i]idiotic.[/i] There's nothing to be gained from justice, especially when it's hard to define what justice really is. Although I wouldn't argue that this runs counter to feminist themes, I do not feel that the justice being portrayed in Kill Bill is [i]anything remotely reasonable[/i]. It is justice built on spite and revenge. I could see the reasoning here if the main character's motivations were supported by the love of her daughter, but when you eliminate that aspect, there [i]isn't[/i] anything pushing her forward except for the narrow desire for revenge. The only reason that the movie works then, is because of how absolutely absurd the universe is. [/quote] So what you're doing is conflating your personal ideas about what traits are intrinsically positive or negative with feminist representation in film. Which is making you miss the point. We are not talking about what personality traits or action real life feminists should be using or aspiring to use, we are talking about the fact that the women in Kill Bill are largely treated and represented irrespective of their gender. It doesn't matter if taking bloody revenge is a good or a bad thing to you. A feminist movie is not a 'how to guide' for feminists. All these traits: that you listed are neutral, they aren't intrinsically feminist or anti-feminist, they just exist in the film. Now considering the cast are all murderers for hire, these motivations and actions actually make a hell of a lot of sense in universe. Beatrix isn't portrayed as noble hero, she's vicious killer who was fucked over by her former gang of vicious killers and she is taking bloody revenge because she's mad. Why would a character as brutal as that need to be motivated by 'the love of her daughter'? The fact that you find this 'baffling' 'inane' or 'absurd' stems from the fact that you don't really understand feminism.