[quote=@tex] Sorry, I just find your position on 'winning' completely laughable.[/quote] that's because your idea of competition is laughable. You can't relate. [quote=@Tex]There were many points brought up about reforming Arena so that there are [i]options[/i] which can allow more inclusive styles of play outside of the 'competitive' sector,[/quote] Sounds like inclusivity comes at the sacrifice of the arena and tournament's purpose. You want to pretend fight then go to the other sections where you're free to arrange it. [quote=@Tex]which is absolutely flooded with arbitrary and nebulous rules.[/quote] That's because you don't play. Why is autohitting a universal rule in most places? Is that arbitrary? can you answer it? [quote=@Tex]Judgement on competitive combat should be objective, but it cannot be done in such a manner due to the subjective nature of not only [i]fictional writing,[/i] but fictional [i]combat.[/i] whenever I think of Arena judgement, I compare it to death battle, pretty much entirely.[/quote] Take your nihilism elsewhere then cause this section isn't for you. There's many styles among us and we don't all agree, but we do agree on a standard on what is and isn't allowed. How "x" and "y" interact and what it means when z happens. [quote=@Tex]A great deal of focus on 'rules and regulations' is not helpful.[/quote] Opinion [quote=@Tex]All you're purporting is for Arena to [b]do more of the same.[/b][/quote] Wrong again. My posts in this thread was for players to take action and I've only butted in to correct fallacious points (whether it was by Dias or what competition is). No one is stopping you from doing things yourself like Carian has or myself. [url=https://www.roleplayerguild.com/forums/6-arena-roleplay/topics/new]Go ahead and get started[/url] [quote=@Tex]If people don't want things to change, I don't care all that much.[/quote] Who are you to dictate change and what type of change? What if we don't need change? What if we don't need change in certain areas? Not all change is good change. [quote=@tex]But you will continue to pertain to a niche that a great deal of role-players seem to find especially repulsive.[/quote] A great deal in RPGuild. There's a lot of places that have pvp focuses (theme based mainly) who aren't adverse of some pvp. I find your lack of empathy to the spirit of competition repulsive. Do you care? I assume not, but the feeling is 100 percent mutual. [quote=@Tex]The outcome there would ultimately be the result of Arena's culture, something that has persisted since pre-guild fall.[/quote] That's from a lack of effort than people "playing to win" and if you, and your lot, cannot leave how others play alone then go back to whatever toxic section you came from. [quote=@Tex]Back in the days when I was especially active in Arena, there were plenty more threads with people who didn't care so much about winning as they did about the experience of combat.[/quote] Well these aren't your days anymore and were never your days outside of guild. PVP has always been apart of the scene and a great many of us existed or still exist to play and win even if we don't like or agree with each other. [quote=@tex]Those were the golden ages,[/quote] To you [quote=@Tex]even if there were still a ton of fuckboys who tried to abuse rules and the vagueness of RP to pull out victories. I should know, I was one of them. And I won [b]a lot.[/b][/quote] And there's a lot of us who don't and can still win [b]a lot[/b]. [quote=@Tex]The idea that PVP engagements are only about winning is entirely shortsighted.[/quote] That's the entire point of one-off PVPs like the arena. [quote=@Tex]What's even [i]worse[/i] is assuming that Combat roleplay is [i]only about fighting one another.[/i] While the primary focus of combat role play is [i]combat,[/i] the scenarios and terms of engagement are not limited to a narrow view of this particular subsection.[/quote] That's the entire point of the arena subsection: it's for one offs and tournaments where players aren't totally invested in something longer than a page or two. [quote=@Tex]This pertains to 'competitive rule sets' as well. Rules in Arena and role play are nebulous restrictions that encourage a competitive atmosphere despite the inherent impossibility to make such an environment objective.[/quote] Opinion [quote=@Tex]Writing combat that can flow well and achieve some level of coherency does not [i]need to be competitive[/i] though, and that's my point entirely.[/quote] It doesn't and you'll be right. It also doesn't mean it does have to be that way, and with a subsection for fighting: it isn't. You can always make a writing contest. [quote=@Tex]The idea that winning is all that matters is [b]absolutely toxic,[/b][/quote] "STOP WINNING!" [quote=@Tex]even if there [i]are[/i] viable competitive rules set up.[/quote] The point of rules is to foster a standard most can agree to when engaging each other in a specific venue. These rules are made to protect the interest of one's self before the interest of others, because the self interest can inherently protect the others from abuse when implemented. This is why many competitive venues have rules: to keep people in-line and behaved and protect the talent therein. [quote=@tex]Do you [i]not want[/i] people that want non-competitive combat role-plays around here?[/quote] They can roleplay anywhere they want. I've said this before: instead of being an ideas guy just go do it. You don't need someone to hold your hand. You don't need the staff to write it up. Go ahead. Just don't be disingenuous and tell others what "competition" is. [quote=@Tex]Are you focused on [i]stagnating[/i] Arena even more? If so, [b]Oh my god, [i]wow[/i], have fun with that, #bye.[/b] [/quote] Good riddance. We don't need an emotionally charged argument. We were fine before your smug images. You want change? Go make it happen.