[quote=@Ammokkx]...[/quote]I do not think you understand what I am saying. Or rather you are refusing to understand on account of the fact that you stubbornly refuse to accept that there is a difference between the commercial success and failure of a product and its success or failure as representative of a genre.

You can have a movie that's billed as horror but isn't scary at all. And yet such a movie can make huge amounts of money. Does this mean that it's a good "horror" movie? NO. It makes it a good movie overall that did good as a movie but it still fails at its genre. And that's what I am saying here as well.


A good "MMO game", two words combined and not just one, is a game based around having fun through group socialization within the context it provides. Therefore in order to succeed both as a product AND as a MMO it has to tick not one but both of those boxes. It has to combines both a set of good team and/or PVP activities to engage you and keep you engaged when you have friends around and a good set of mechanics to forcefully make sure even the most awkward shy person ever could make friends so as to ensure nobody was stuck awkwardly playing alone and missing out on the true content, which is the fun of socialization. It's a game that creates conditions for forced (if stealthily so) socialization and than makes that socialization fun.

And if it fails at one or the other it either fails as a game overall or it fails at its genre. And the two are, like in the movie example, completely separate things.

A good and fun multiplayer game that does not create those conditions, one that does not in fact have a way to push people into forming bonds almost against their will whilst making them feel like it's organic natural and even their own idea is not a good MMO. It's just a good multiplayer like DOTA or Warthunder or Counter Strike. It might be fun, it might be successful and it might rack in a lot of cash. But like our movie example above it still fails at the genre it's trying to belong to.

Equally so a game that creates those conditions and does so fantastically but that just isn't fun to play is a good MMO but a crap game. It succeeds at its genre and might do so brilliantly. But because its just not fun it fails at the "game" part and is thus doomed to failure, and rightly so. Just like a "horror" movie that is incredibly frighting but otherwise just plain crap.


But those are two separate things that need to be looked at separately. Because you can and do have plenty of situations where you fail at one and succeed at the other.