[quote=@Zombehs] Have you considered romance is something that happens organically for the most part and isn't a flow chart followed by automatons? [/quote] Don't project on me. Only real-life experience can determine one's perception of what's organic and what works. And if you're going to dismiss someone's experience because it upsets you or doesn't align with your views, more power to you! I've seen the things I've pointed out play out pretty consistently - personal quirks and all considered. Whether it's an early first meeting, or long-time friends who begin to act friendlier than usual because their perceptions of one another change, what's essential is that the romantic agenda being put on the table in a transparent way. How can you have a healthy relationship without honesty? Based on my experience and my friends' experience, friends becoming lovers is very rare in practice, because it tends to devolve into friendship as courtship. Asking outright is more common and tends to work better. That's a fact. There's no reason to get mad, and there's no reason to put words in my mouth that I never said. The hype for "friends to lovers" arises mostly from fiction and fantasy, not experience. [quote=@Aurkanthis] It can't be if I have seen it otherwise first hand in my own experience. Lol [/quote] So, you're dismissing my experience because it doesn't fit into your narrative? Class act!