[quote=mammon]When I talk about it as an exertion of will, I do not mean strength or willpower. When I say will, I mean agency or choice. I somewhat agree that killing yourself is far more simple than grinding on with a life you have no interest in living, but I think a person has a right to decide what they do to their own body--even to the point of death. I'm not trying to say that anyone should kill themselves over living... I am saying that they have a right to and it shouldn't be deemed selfish or weak. I believe the entire issue is a matter of bodily agency.[/quote] And why shouldn't it be deemed selfish and weak? It is selfish, they are so afraid of living that they often don't seek help but take it on themselves to remove themselves from the human race because "It's too hard." It is weak, it's the ultimate act of weakness, it's the world getting them so down that they chicken out and check out early. They're too weak to continue. Too afraid. Should they be allowed to top themselves? Sure, I don't want to waste oxygen on people who don't want to be alive. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold them contemptible for their weakness. If a man kills a dozen people is he not held responsible for his weakness and wrongdoing? If a woman bashes her husband is she not held responsible for her own failings (all too often the answer is "No she isn't" for that one btw). If a teacher seduces his or her students and its discovered are they not arrested and jailed for it? Why should suicides be held above reproach for THEIR failings. Because they're dead? Because when the murderer dies nobody has the guts to say at his funeral that he was a murdering piece of shit but instead focusses on the few small things they did right. Or how the husband-basher at her funeral has the same husband recite the good things about her instead of pointing out she was an abusive cunt that he dreamed of shooting. Or the teacher at his/her funeral and how people talk about how he/she was a strong educator, not that he or she was a sicko that engaged in statutory rape? Too many people FAR too many people regard death as a 'cureall' well they're dead, we can't say anything bad about them they've already gotten the worst life can throw at them. Death is not a cureall. If someone is a coward and kills themselves they were still a coward and should be remembered only as such. Because in the ultimate act of cowardice in successfully removing themselves from the world they've invalidated any value their life has. They checked all that in for a one-way ticket out.