[quote=ShonHarris]
Separation of Church and State can arise in more than just the blatant declaration of a nation following a deity, it can also be reflected in making major decisions largely due to ties to a faith-community. These two things are not necessarily the same, and may look very different. A political leader can be a part of a faith without allowing their personal beliefs to be the major force behind a decision. Said leader could also push harder for certain areas simply because they subscribe to a certain faith. While everyone may have their own personal motivations, for an elected official, ideally, they should be working with the needs of the people first. If the people declare their concerns and the leader's faith blocks them from validating and moving on those, Church and State are clearly not separated. That all said, didn't Vice just do an episode a week or two ago about a major Christian organization pumping tens of millions of dollars to support Israel obtaining the land that's currently Pakistan? Much of that goes toward lobbying and pushing the US Government to support their ideals, and so far isn't really losing. So say money from religious groups leads a nation to make certain decisions. Is that really Separation of Church and State? Is that not an example of a group, obviously significant considering they put more money than actual Jewish organizations toward this cause, guiding a government to make decisions based on religious ideals above all else? I guess my real point here is that money fuels many votes. Some might like to think the US Government is growing all the more secular, but I'd say that as long as our government's decisions correlates to the will of those forking over the money, that's probably not the case. America is a country of convenience with a majority of its population identifying as Christian. Many may not be active in the faith, some may praise with intense passion, but a good chunk shows its belief through money. We're not talking about a poor minority that has suffered under the boot-heel of the US. I mean, seriously, we're talking about a massively rich faith-community that had direct impact on the laws of the land and the established status-quo.
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And this is where the constitutional text becomes notably important to me. It's not 'Separation of Church and State,' it's 'Congress shall make no law regarding establishment....' In other words, governments can't tell people how to think, but people (even religious people (even religious people who don't agree with me about everything)) should **certainly** be able to tell governments how to govern. That's what by-the-people is all about. If we only wanted the government to serve secular financial/social interests we might as well stop masquerading as a democracy at all. That's phrased oddly, but hopefully you can get at what I mean....

In other words: I'm not a fan of lobbyists. Not the environmental lobby, not the oil lobby, not the ACLU, not the ACLA, none of 'em. They're not designed to be fair, rational organizations -- but they serve an important function, whether I like them or not. When we start arguing about which money is allowed to be spent, which words are allowed to be said in DC... we've already lost.