[quote=So Boerd]Uh, whether he successfully implemented Communism is irrelevant. Those people who died died for Communism.[/quote] Did they? Brovo just went into a rather detailed explanation of how Communism was a system that never happen, and how they died was under a Dictatorship. Would you like provide some proof, evidence and/or reasoning as to why it was in fact Communism or would you rather simply go "No, I disagree and you're wrong"?. [quote=So Boerd]Regardless of your false assertions about the Dark Ages, which are patently so.[/quote] No it's rather accurate to say science and advancement was slowed down a good amount. Science and research has constantly led to things that: 1) People did not understand 2) Conflicted with the Bible Both of those beings things people would burn evidence of and kill people over. It's well known that lots of scientific progress was lost due to Religion. On top of it such behaviour would of made many others too afraid to advance the human race, and lastly with so many people following such a Religion it leaves less people to do said Scientific research to advance humanity with. [quote=So Boerd]People do dumb thing in the name of all ideologies or doctrines.What if your Congress thought sea levels were going to rise 20 in a decade? Or thought that killing all the academics was needed for the proletariat?[/quote] And Religion counts as one of those Ideologies, and a quite effective one since it's no longer fear of a man or something physical/observable. It's fear to a supernatural being that people were raised to believe is something on a whole other level of existence, one where any kind of question, rebelling etc is futile. I mean just look at North Korea, yes it's a political one mainly but Kim Jong effectively has people think he is a deity... Encouraging the same level of fear and obedience. To the point that [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5jHJVrKHaM]people who flee the country still for years after fear to think ill of him out of fear of him knowing instantly and causing them to die.[/url] As for your example's they'd probably do it. People all the time spout "End of the world" shit, and a ton of people buy into it. Hell I'll admit to during my later Christian days I was one of those nutter's who thought shit like "Obama is the anti-christ" and the end of the world would be from him. Also religion did kill academics, this was addressed above with the whole "Does not understand" and "Conflict's with Religion", they take it as an attack on their God/Religion so they kill them as part of their crusades, cleansing etc. [quote=So Boerd]Nobody is taking about establishing a state church, we are talking about things like Christmas Trees and "Under God" in a voluntary pledge. If you think those things will cause a governmental collapse, you are silly.[/quote] Actually we are... When you say Church and State that means giving Church the political power to rule. Which means the whole of that religion is going to pour through. Not just the minor parts like Christmas tree's or saying "Under God", but also stuff such as Homophobia, teaching said Religion was fact. And depending on how the Religion on top cherry pick it could also imply the day of Sabbath, stoning of disobedient children, the allowance of rape, execution for blasphemy etc. Even if they were fairly moral with the cherry picking and most of the Bible's ugly bits/most of the bible didn't show itself you've still got the issue of political choices are now based on "What does the book say" or "What does God say" rather than using intellectual reason and debate.