[quote=So Boerd] The burden of proof is on whomever is making the statement. I can say green swans exist. You cannot prove they don't. Therefore you can only say you don't know. By making the assertion that they don't, the burden is on you to prove it. Green swans exist is an verifiable, unfalsifiable statement. The opposite is unverifiable and falsifiable. Making a definitive statement which is unverifiable is silly, don't you think?The burden is on the atheist and the theist both. It is not on the agnostic. [/quote] In a legal case it's on both. I've more or less thought that in a debate that isn't in a court setting that it depends on someone making an assertion. While the faithful/theists, have an assertion for of course, that, for lack of a better word, "Church" involvement, is not just okay, but beneficial, to society and even politics in general, the fact is that it isn't really all that hard to make an observation of many benefits that have come from Christian contributions to the culture in Western societies. The burden is on others to prove that, in summary, that [I]proper[/I] involvement of religious thought in the Government and public life, is as negative to Society in general, if it's negative AT ALL, as they say it is.