[quote=bushidoxisamu2] Originally was. He was a lil too strong for original so he had a handicap in the old multiverse.So if anything, handicap version is good for Ahven. But the original is probably great for tier 5 and up [/quote] I meant which version of Ahven. Ahven's original version would likely be tier 5. He had to be nerfed for the arena too. Both versions are listed in my box. Is there a character sheet for your Hades Kid I can look at?