Hidden 2 mos ago Post by Lucius Cypher
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Watched some Ender Lilies gameplay and felt inspired to try and run a 5e game somewhat similar in theme and style. I'll keep it short, but basically here's the idea I have thus far:

Your characters are spirits of warriors, mages, cunning tricksters, or really any other person of great potential who has died in a blighted Kingdom for one reason or another. Effectively while you create your character by standard race/class rules, you'll be using a custom background reflecting your current fate. This leads to the next part.

Your characters are bound to a single character controlled by me. This character channels your powers, due to a sever lack of power on their own part, effectively turning them into a sort of gestalt of not just two classes, but of each class from each player. In practice, when it comes to combat initiate will be done as normal however when it is your turn, you get to move my character and preform your actions as normal, and when your turn is up you lose your control and it's someone else's turn. This has potential drawback and limitations, for example if two spell casters are both casting concentration spells, as long as they each are casting different spells it's possible for them to technically have my character affected by both spells. However if my character is struck by an attack, both casters need to roll a concentration check to maintain their spells as well. Additionally should this character die for one reason or another, that effectively kills off all the spirits at once, so it's imperative you protect them if you want to continue your existence.

There may be a future possibility for your characters to obtain a physical form so you can fight and act independently of my character, enabling more tactical combat as well as keeping the character safe. To do this however requires something important from you as a character: I'd need you to send me information about an area where your character had died, and more or less help me set up the scene to explain your death and how going to this area could spiritually strengthen your character to Manifest a physical form. This helps in two ways: helps me get a better sense of your character, and helps keep you as a player invested in the story. Because that brings me to my next point.

There's a possibility that a player may leave for one reason or another. Maybe they don't like the game, perhaps life simply couldn't find the time. I can understand why, and to ensure that the game proceeds smoothly despite the lost I've already thought of an IC reason of what happens. See, being a spirit is hard enough knowing that you've likely died a traumatic and painful death. Most people lose their minds and become the very monsters we'll no doubt he fighting. But some simply lose their purpose and vanish from existence without nary a whimper. It's a bleak existence out here, and it's all the more reason it's important to be able to find the will to keep fighting, somehow. That being said this also serves another purpose: should my character feel threaten or believe that your character is working against them, they can simply relinquish their bond with your spirit, which will also result in your demise as without an anchor to this world, you spirit simply becomes another mindless enemy. Keep that in mind if you're intending to create a character who doesn't care to cooperate with the team is more than willing to put their host in danger.

Anyways that's enough gabbing from me. If this sounds like a good idea go ahead and put your thoughts below. I'm likely only going to take six at most, so it'll largely be a first come first serve thing, but I'm willing to take more if others drop out. Additionally if you have any other questions or concerns feel free to ask them and I'll think about an answer. I'll admit I haven't gotten everything thought up so it'll be good for us to discuss it so we can work out the details.
Hidden 2 mos ago Post by rush99999
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What's the starting level?
Hidden 2 mos ago Post by Lucius Cypher
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I'm thinking level 3. That's where you can start doing fun things.
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Effectively while you create your character by standard race/class rules, you'll be using a custom background reflecting your current fate.


What features and stuff does this custom background provide?
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by Lucius Cypher
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2 skills proficiency of your choice, 1 language proficiency, and 1 tool proficiency. The background feature is called "Bright Mutation", basically due to the curse in the land prior to your physical death, you all had some strange mutation that grants you an unusual ability. It can be combat related, such as having grown long arms for greater range or wings to fly away and dodge enemies, or more utility like such as being able to smell magic items in the air or create a shelter to rest. Within limits or course, so it'll be a case by case.
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by XxFellsingxX
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I'll admit I've never played Ender Lilies, but I'm definitely intrigued.
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by Lucius Cypher
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A few extra bodies and I'll go about making an ooc.
Hidden 15 days ago Post by rush99999
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Does what you have planned for this require a large group or could you still do this with just me and Fellsing?
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I'd prefer to have at least four players, so two more bodies.
Hidden 12 days ago Post by Fading Memory
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I've never done a forum based tabletop roleplay, but I like the sound of everyone 'sharing' the body and having to fight/co-operate over it. It's definitely an interesting idea and gives me almost 'idle' game vibes. I'm willing to give it a shot.
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This sounds very interesting. ^_^
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@XxFellsingxX@Guardian Angel Haruki@Fading Memory@rush99999

Alright, this is four bodies, which is good enough for me. Before I open an OOC, I want to get some feedback about what you guys would like or want as far as character creation, homebrew stuff, mechanics, etc.

As I said, the premise of this is that you're all basically the individual components of a single Gestalt character. This grants the character a very unique set of skills and powers, but also a different sorts of issues. Let me make an example of how combat will go down:



If that all sounds long and complex, well that's more or less how the game will go. Except usually I'll be throwing more enemies at you, and often with more unique abilities than what you'd expect from the monster manual. A lot of the foes you'll face are at best reskins of existing monsters or straight up homebrewed. This is because the nature of a gestalt basically means that you'll have no statistical weakness. The Gestalt will use the Highest AC, relevant saving throw, and a combination of everyone's health for their HP. However skill checks are still their own, barring a character actively using their action to roll the skill instead, for example the Rogue using their stealth to hide the Gestalt instead of the Gestalt using their own stealth, which is a +0. Additionally if a Gestalt is struck and characters are concentrating on a spell, the respective characters must still roll their own concentration checks using their own constitution, which can add a layer of complexity if all the gestalts are casters.

Aside from that, there's also the matter of the Gestalt themselves. While they are effectively a DMPC, I would like you all to give me your thoughts about who or what the Gestalt is. I will say now that statistically, they're 10 across the board. While this may change later into the story, they are effectively about as good as a commoner, baring whatever racial bonuses they get, and without the rest of you they aren't going to last very long. That being said the Gestalt isn't totally useless as demonstrated in the combat example: because they themselves are being targeted, they can still try to dodge attacks. They can also do other actions normally available, such as using an item, moving, or even attacking albeit probably not as good as some of your characters. And while I will control the Gestalt, your life is bound to them, so I highly recommend your characters making use of the Gestalt themselves as an extension of your own character. Additionally while I'm more or less crowdsourcing who they are in some aspects, they still have their own personality, goals, and interests, so keep that in mind when creating your character. Perhaps they know the Gestalt, or maybe they're a stranger. Maybe they're friends, or perhaps were even enemies.

As far as character building will go, we will do standard 27 point buy. Any official books or resources are allowed, though keep in mind that for Background you will all be using a specific one I am providing below. No particular restrictions on race, I do allow the Tasha stat changing as well. Any official class is allowed, you may multiclass if you'd like but you must still meet the standard stat requirements to multiclass into or out of your primary class. Items will be based off your class and Background, provided below.

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Hidden 9 days ago 9 days ago Post by Fading Memory
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Standard 27 point buy. Tasha’s shuffling allowed. Any race and class and supplement book permitted. All sounds good to me.

Combined HP total shoved onto one body, benefiting from the highest AC of the spirits/entities bound to the Gestalt. Sounds good. Five actions and initiatives sharing the one body will be a very different way of playing, indeed.

From your example, we will always be stacking/considering our Gestalt nature in an advantageous manner? I.E the Rogue rolling stealth but not suffering disadvantage from the Cleric’s chainmail? What if the Gestalt itself were wearing Chainmail? Once the Gestalt is Hidden/Unseen, we could combine all four Spirits into one Advantage’d Burst in one instant?

This is just a brief clarification for my own mental health. I’m beginning to see the bound characters almost as Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure Stands, which is fine and merely an amusement thing. We’re able to use differing gear and weapons despite the Gestalt just being an unarmored and unequipped (humanoid); so the vision of some ghost barbarian swinging a giant axe around this lightly panicking person sounds hilarious.

Will changing our equipment/handling the collection of coinage require the Gestalt to do some ritual? Are we able to attune to items through the Gestalt? Would drinking a potion of healing be an action the Gestalt does, or could we theoretically drink five potions a turn?

I think that covers all my initial questions, I have a Warlock concept I’ve been ahem dying to use that would work quite well for this!
Hidden 9 days ago 9 days ago Post by Lucius Cypher
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From your example, we will always be stacking/considering our Gestalt nature in an advantageous manner? I.E the Rogue rolling stealth but not suffering disadvantage from the Cleric’s chainmail? What if the Gestalt itself were wearing Chainmail? Once the Gestalt is Hidden/Unseen, we could combine all four Spirits into one Advantage’d Burst in one instant?


Generally yeah, being gestalt usually means you get the best of what everyone can bring, barring a few specific examples I may have not brought up. Again for example, since the Gestalt is technically alone, some abilities that are dependent on being on a party may not work, such as a Rogue's Sneak Attack proccing off being adjacent to your allies. Despite multiple spirits being bound to the Gestalt, the Gestalt is still physically alone, and thus the sole "threat" to the enemies, so unless the rogue or someone else develops an ability to create a copy or ally, the rogue cannot get sneak attack off an adjacent ally. There are probs other examples I haven't thought of that would be pertinent, so we'll have to deal with them case-by-case.

Also, abilities that only affect the character themselves generally will only apply to themselves, or unless it can affect them by proxy through the gestalt. Take for example barbarian abilities: rage not only enables the barbarian's attacks to hit harder, but the physical resistance from rage will grant them, and by extension the gestalt, resistance against physical, piercing, and slashing. Reckless Attack however will only apply to the barbarian's attacks, not say the rogues, and the drawback to reckless attacks will still apply to the gestalt as well, meaning all attacks against the gestalt will be at advantage. Which while perhaps not too much of an issue if someone makes sure they bring a high AC, it may still be a problem for characters who prefer not to get hit at all such as casters. Balancing these abilities when the users all share a single body is one of those unique challenges I wanna see everyone work through.

This is just a brief clarification for my own mental health. I’m beginning to see the bound characters almost as Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure Stands, which is fine and merely an amusement thing. We’re able to use differing gear and weapons despite the Gestalt just being an unarmored and unequipped (humanoid); so the vision of some ghost barbarian swinging a giant axe around this lightly panicking person sounds hilarious.


This is a valid idea. Just like stands, despite being spiritual creatures in nature you can still affect the physical world, and most physical things can't affect you directly. Though just like stands, there may exist creatures not entirely unlike yourself who can target your character directly, or even by proxy through the Gestalt. In other words, only stands can affect stands.

Will changing our equipment/handling the collection of coinage require the Gestalt to do some ritual? Are we able to attune to items through the Gestalt? Would drinking a potion of healing be an action the Gestalt does, or could we theoretically drink five potions a turn?


At the moment, while I'm still thinking about who or what exactly the Gestalt is, I do know that for the most part they won't be able to utilize most of the equipment they find. Largely due to a lack of training: again they're about as capable as a commoner, perhaps even less so, as they don't even have simple weapon proficiency. That being said yeah, the Gestalt more or less will be able to do a ritual in order to sort of "buy" equipment for your characters, and finding certain NPC's can expand what you can get. Physical coinage isn't really something to worry about, but an functional equivalent will be made simply by slaying your enemies or finding certain items in the world. In other words, instead of gold coins you'll have some "soul" sort of currency, which basically serves the same function but simply has a more reasonable justification for how you're getting them off random monsters you kill and how a feeble character can carry 10000+ at any given time.

As for attunement, depends on the item. Items still have limitations based off classes which the Gestalt may not qualify for, at least not immediately. For example a wand that requires attunement by a spellcaster wouldn't be something the Gestalt can attune to, since despite the multitude of spirits helping them, the Gestalt themselves is not a spellcaster. However if one of those spirits want to use the wand, they can attune to it, and it'll only use that character's individual attunement slots, freeing up other casters to attune to other items. However events that may happen could strengthen the bond the caster character has to the Gestalt, and the Gestalt themselves may begin to show signs of their influence. Usually small things, like a single proficiency in a skill or weapon, or more notably things like having a weaker or limited use of a class feature, such as spellcasting or a fighting style.

Despite the power that a Gestalt usually has, therein lies the potential to be even stronger, which is fine to me. I like my players feeling like they're strong, and thus it makes me feel less guilty when I try to use more enemies, weirder foes, or strange tactics. I may have mentioned this before, but I also just want to see how it'll be like if the usual perspective is flipped for the players: instead of usually being able to outnumber a big and powerful threat, now the players are collectively that big powerful threat, and the enemies are the ones who must outnumber, outmaneuver, and overwhelm the PC. I'll be fair about it of course, but at the same time the things the party will fight are not things that you may normally fight in a conventional adventure.

Example of enemies you may face are minions and mooks with casting abilities. Some are able to cast combat cantrips or even leveled spells like magic missile or hold person, which can be an alarming prospect since the gestalt is alone, and thus if they do somehow fail or can't protect themselves, all those spells are going to one person. Some enemies may even effectively have class levels, like madness stricken warriors being able to rage or craven assassins sneak attacking. Some enemies can also just do weird shit. I have in mind to add a sort of flying kamikaze foe who flies in close, explodes, and force the gestalt to roll a save against being stunned and taking some damage. And there'll be _a lot_ of those. And that's not even including some of the crazy shit I have for bosses. I already know the first boss you'll be facing does and will use legendary actions, so be prepared to face some harrowing foes.
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Hidden 9 days ago Post by Guardian Angel Haruki
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Cool Beans!

I think I will go Artificer for this game. ^_^
Hidden 8 days ago 8 days ago Post by XxFellsingxX
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Thinking about playing a non-caster class, likely a monk.

You mentioned earlier that each of our characters can have a mutation of sorts. Is that still a thing or have you changed that? The description of the custom background implies that's no longer the case.
Hidden 8 days ago Post by Lucius Cypher
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Yeah I've decided to remove that. Headache enough knowing that everyone sorta kinda shares their abilities by nature of a gestalt, no need to add more o to that you know? Though I am thinking of adding an extra section into the background describing some mutations you've gained due to your fate here, but they would not grant any mechanical benefits or drawbacks.
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Hidden 8 days ago Post by XxFellsingxX
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@XxFellsingxX

Yeah I've decided to remove that. Headache enough knowing that everyone sorta kinda shares their abilities by nature of a gestalt, no need to add more o to that you know? Though I am thinking of adding an extra section into the background describing some mutations you've gained due to your fate here, but they would not grant any mechanical benefits or drawbacks.


Alrighty, that's fine! Just wanted to make sure while I was still coming up with my character concept.
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Out of curiosity: If I made my Artificer a Battle Smith, how would the Steel Defender work? Would it be spiritual as well, or would it be a physical companion for the Gestalt NPC? ^^"
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Hidden 6 days ago Post by Lucius Cypher
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Fascinating question. I would say that the Steel Defender will not be a spiritual creature, but a physical one, though one that only responds to your character. So the Gestalt for example can't command the Steel Defender to do anything without your character specifically making the same order, but it will recognize the Gestalt as an ally.

Hence forth if your character is capable of summon/creating/having allies beyond themselves, such as a familiar, animal companion, or whatever, they'll largely be a physical being with all the risks that entails. So they could potentially be targeted by enemies, fall into traps, take damage, etc.
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