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  • Old Guild Username: mbl
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    1. mdk 10 yrs ago
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9 yrs ago
new leg today. I AM TERMINATOR REBORN
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You're not hearing me.

I didn't say "leave it alone."

I said, show me the policy that fixes it, and we'll talk. Show me. You're apparently a subject-matter expert. Fix it. And then we'll talk about universal healthcare.
However under president Obama, and presumably under Bernie Sanders the waiting days of the VA went down 119 days between 2014 and 2015 I think?


Not buying that. I waited 14 months in 2014 and I'm still waiting after 18 months in 2016-2017. Granted, sample size of one, but frankly it's the one I care the most about.

Not really sure where to go from there.

We're political children more concerned with soundbites than policy.


I told you exactly where to go from there. Solve the VA. Show me the policy that fixes the VA, put that policy into practice. When that happens, I'll entertain a conversation about universal healthcare. Until you can do that, you're asking me to inflict the system that cut me into literal pieces onto the rest of the nation. I ain't having it. Come on -- gradually apply some data to it. Fix my conservative BS. Punch the Nazi. Show me what you got, you're the smart one.

Or were you just looking for another chance to throw out a soundbite?
@Kratesis

My point being that all countries with universal healthcare systems face these challenges to a greater or lesser extent. I know the current administration doesn't exactly inspire confidence but you can do it! I believe in you USA! The idea that the greatest superpower in the history of the world cant confront the horrors of regional diversity in order to provide healthcare to its citizens is ludicrous.


The VA serves 8.92 million veterans, and accounts for $186.5 billion, or about 5% of the total federal budget give-or-take. That's about half the budget of Medicaid (70 million enrolled), and about a third the budget of Medicare (57 million enrolled). In other words, spending per person, you get Medicare ($1k/person), then Medicaid ($5,257/person), then the VA at a whopping $20,722/person, or four times more spent on administrating that cost than on the nearest similar program.

And despite that, VA wait times are outlandish (I tore my shoulder in May of 2016 -- still waiting), outcomes are terrible (I lost my leg over a torn meniscus, and others have it worse), satisfaction is lower than a sagging ant tit (and does that surprise anybody?). All this is caused by many things, like the sheer size of the country and the distribution of veterans within it, but it's also because bureaucracy always trends towards this result. It's also because private practice attracts more (and better) healthcare providers. It's also because US federal employees are practically immune from firing -- or they were, up until Trump signed the VA accountability act, so we'll see how much that helps.

It's also because honestly no, we can't handle it. We're political children more concerned with soundbites than policy, and we'll vote for anybody who says the right thing. Know who was in charge of the VA, until he ran for president? I'll give you a hint, he's the one proposing universal healthcare. Why the fuck would we listen to him?
I've worked in two different countries with universal healthcare systems. Neither of them were perfect but both of them had significant advantages over the American system. This is particularly true in the provision of pre-critical preventative care. Again, not perfect, but better.


I'm willing to bet they were also smaller.

The US is very large and very diverse (meaning geopolitically -- population distribution, regional income, infrastructure, etc). The policies that work in New York are different than the policies that work in New Mexico. I don't think universal healthcare will work at the federal level in the US, and I base that on my experiences with TriCare and the VA system. I think that most, if not all, of the patients operating in either or both of those federal healthcare systems will back me up on that.

Put simply -- this is not a conversation worth having in the US until the federal government can demonstrate competency with the VA. Until that happens, universal healthcare is delusional.
snip


Ok, we can drop it for now and find a new topic to talk about. I have been neglecting some RP stuff last night and today because of the discussions unfortunately.


<Snipped quote by Penny>
True, but most decisions aren't as permanent as that. Choosing whether your kid gets certain medications or if they go to a certain school is what the parent thinks is best, not what the parent exactly feels like they want. To me it's like they're treating a baby like a cheese burger. "Oh, no pickles. Lots of lettuce. And yes, ketchup. But not TOO much ketchup."


And it's taking some of the LIFE out of, well, life, isn't it? Someday I wanna look my lesbian intersexual daughterson in the mismatched eyes and tell shim "I'd love you even if you were straight."

....and I'm only joking about the offensive part, like, that unconditional love between a parent and a child is about as fundamental to the human story as anything else. When we start picking our kids' traits out of a brochure, we're introducing contionality to it. Like "Look, I love you kid, but they fucked up your nose, it's too big, that's not what I paid for and frankly I feel like I should get some of my money back. I mean not all of it, you're still mostly cool, but come on though."
Moving along.

If it is eugenics to try to avoid genetic diseases, then all those gene therapy trials are in trouble. Frankly I hope we are one day able to edit out such genetic defects, although we have a considerable way to go.


You're right, it's just.... it's hard for me not to connect this dot back to myself. If a baby is born with one leg, well, that's gonna cost you money, better just kill it. Hard for me not to react to that. And like I said, I'm not talking about a ban on abortion in general -- just with regards to this post-birth murder concept. Sparta used to do that

According to the article the Netherlands alreay has such a list:


Indeed. And it's a very specifically-targeted list which basically amounts to a mercy kill -- again I don't think anybody's happy about that, but it's reasonable.

Ah the old fetus/car loan equivalency. Seriously? How is this even remotely similar? You didn't borrow the fetus from someone...unless ... you DID?!


You borrow it from JEBUS. Naw, again, I'm talking about actual born babies which are alive. I think people who kill their pets because they're too expensive are assholes -- people who kill their actually-born living human baby, because of money, I mean..... I'm having a hard time characterizing that beyond "monstrous."

I suppose it is something that should be left up to the mothers but I personally would never be comfortable euthanizing a healthy newborn.


I dunno, once it's actually born, I don't think it's up to the mother anymore. Everything up until that point, there's a legitimate conflict of rights between the fetus and the mother, and legally speaking you can make an argument either way -- but once born, that conflict goes away. We owe that baby the world and everything in it, and no one should be allowed to just kill it (barring that honestly pretty reasonable Netherlands standard of "Suffering forever with no hope of improvement").
Well the FBI wire tapped Manafort because of supposed ties to Russia, not Trump himself.
<Snipped quote>

<Snipped quote>

But Obama himself didn't wiretapped Trump, which is what Trump claimed.


Here's the whole timeline of events. I mean until politifact alters the rating.... FWIW the Manafort phones in question are, in fact, located in Trump Tower.
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