ASTA

Machines(Mechs, Mecha, and Powered Armor Oh My!)

TheFake said
Junk.

Ok.

Machines(Mechs, Mecha, and Powered Armor Oh My!)

jman221 said
who cares about the science of this, its not real who the hell cares????

Tried going with this approach in the beginning, like when I conceded with the whole 'tank' and 'terrain' thing, or when I basically dropped the whole height/weight thing. I mean, it's a roleplay featuring giant robots (of all things) that takes place on a continent-sized landfill filled with an unusually high amount of wrecked vehicles.

As you can clearly see, that approach bombed.

EDIT: Actually, I'm washing my hands of this pointless debate.

I think my time would be better spent writing my IC post. :3

Machines(Mechs, Mecha, and Powered Armor Oh My!)

Once again, you've ignored the existence of the composite materials incorporated into the chassis of the machine. Even if it was 4,000kg of Aerogel (which it wouldn't be), you're attributing that total weight to a material that is approximately 7.5 times lighter than air. You also don't know how much aerogel has been installed into the mech, so your numerical values seem more akin to arbitrary numbers than actual facts brought forth using concrete calculations. It's folly to assume the vehicle incorporates an ungodly amount of aerogel in its protective covering, since you must also factor in the existence of other types of materials in the general armor system (like the various aluminium metals and alloys).

In short, if you're going to assault the weight of a vehicle, don't go after the lightest material on it.

Also, I'm still waiting on your expert evaluation and unnecessary criticism of the other mechs present in the RP. You also haven't answered my previous question, which asked what you're exactly asshurt over.

Let's hear it.

Now, about your helicopter.

Doing away with the troop transport capability of your aircraft and replacing them with more weapons still constitutes more weight being added to your vehicle. The Apache weighs around five and a half tons, while your piece weighs 12. That's more than twice the weight of an aircraft that possesses a 2.45 to 3 hour long flight endurance capacity. How, exactly, is your helicopter flying for 3 straight hours while lugging around 12 tons of (loaded) weight?

An Abrams is 10 meters long. add in some height to account for that the mechs are standing on legs and it about matches the height of the other mechs abeit that a tank has more space inside of the crew.

I don't see how this is relevant. This just fuels my argument that a 2.6 meter-tall mech weighing 45 tons is perfectly reasonable, and does not warrant whatever it is...you're trying to do here right now. I'm still trying to figure out why a 8.5 foot tall machine complete with wide feet and with a weight crawling up to that of a T-62's is making you froth at the mouth or whatever.

Machines(Mechs, Mecha, and Powered Armor Oh My!)

TheFake said
I took the weight of the mech and divided it by 4, the number of legs. Divide the weight by the area of each foot to give the ground pressure. I divided that number by the weight of an H2 to have something to compare it to.Truth be told, the weight of your mech still bothers me. 45 tons of titanium (ignoring the aerogel for now) made into a solid block would take up more space than your mech does. Adding it the aerogel makes the size of your mech physically impossible regarding the weight. It's like trying to fit a gallon of water into a quart sized bottle.

You obviously can't read, bro.

What part of 'composite' don't you understand? I mean, really, do you even know how much Aerogels even weigh? Anything about their density? Anything at all?

I mean, let's be honest: I could rag on the implausibility of your 12 ton Super-Apache and its power plant (which amounts to nothing more than 3 capacitors of unknown type that only provide 3 hours of flight time, which is laughable considering the nature and the intended role of your aircraft). Is this 12 tons unloaded or loaded?

I think you're nitpicking for 0 reason.

That, or you're asshurt over something.

So which is it?

Also, try reading over the other sheets, if you will.

EDIT: If it's the overall height to size ratio, take a gander at modern MBTs and other AFVs.

Machines(Mechs, Mecha, and Powered Armor Oh My!)

TheFake said
you contradict your own point. your mech weighs 80 tonnes. That is nearly twice the weight of any other mech created so far. Piles of junk are unstable and assuming each of your feet are a square meter (which would be quite large), each foot is putting the weight of 7 full size H2s(to use your Hummer example) on a space smaller than a kitchen table. You would be buried in junk before you could even take a second step.

I don't know where you got those calculations (or how), but ok.

TentacleLord said
Reducing it to forty-five tons works nicely. That wraps up about everything. Accepted.

Cool.

Machines(Mechs, Mecha, and Powered Armor Oh My!)

TentacleLord said
Because your vehicle weighs eighty tonnes, thus contradicting the use of your claim of lightweight materials, and your subsequent use of an MBT as an example. Things that are splayed out to the side don't work, with spiders being a premiere example. They can't get bigger than they already are, due to, as you already mentioned, the square-cube law.Splayed out legs work, simply due to how weight gets distributed. Like, something the size of a man would be acceptable, but nothing larger than that.

Most of that weight comes from the mech's internal machinery, however I could reduce its weight to 45 tons to make it more plausible and more in line with my overall description. Even still, it shouldn't matter given how the machine in general doesn't exert more pressure on the ground than, say, some of the other mechs in the RP (especially when you factor in their dimensions and sheer scale). Physics isn't really in your favor with something that tall, even if you're using ultra-light materials.

Keeping in line with overall theme RP, I suggest we get away from the whole 'science thing', like I initially stated a page back. This is a mech RP, after all.

Also, the legs aren't splayed out. Sachism looks like this if anything:



I think you're describing a hexapod mech, which is an entirely different shape (though, mechs of this design would probably be uncontested when it came to moving about the Junkyward).

Machines(Mechs, Mecha, and Powered Armor Oh My!)

TentacleLord said
The lightweight can be explained by the fact that it's set in the far future, tech's gonna be improved and lightweight enough to support such things while not loosing out on integrity. The height is because you'll have arm-sized stubby legs either directly underneath or splayed out to the sides, making it improbable to support it's own weight anyway.

...if it's made out of lightweight material, why is weight an issue?

The bolded point sort of contradicts your paragraph's first statement/argument.

Machines(Mechs, Mecha, and Powered Armor Oh My!)

SwagStag said
Not exactly only for show, but to put all the pertinent information right out there so it's a bit easier to get yardsticks for various statistics about a mech. I highly doubt the exact amount of wattage August's mech will ever be a fact you need to know, but I added it in the character sheet anyways to help establish various (but vague) lines of can/can't do. I just pulled the numbers out of thin air, but I wanted a number that was higher than modern-day fission reactions to show that it was high-tech and high quality. It's just stuff like that; you don't need to worry about making sure that all of your subsystems'll be optimally placed or any crap like that, it's just to help flesh out the capabilities of your mech; I suppose an offhanded way to put it would be flavor text++.

Yeah, mostly this.

However, I had no idea people were trying to pull machines that tall into the RP. I just went with a basic height of a modern tank since that's what the mechs are supposed to be, I guess? Equivalents of tanks?

Machines(Mechs, Mecha, and Powered Armor Oh My!)

TentacleLord said
Three things: First, Increase the height, that's about a man's height plus a bit. Comparatively, if it weighted that much in such a small area it'd fall through the metal most of the time rather than being mobile.Second, make a better physical description or find some sort of suitable picture.Thirdly, even with all that stuff in, no defense is perfect against everything.Other than that looking good.

1) Modern MBTs are around that height. In fact, the M1 Abrams is about 8 feet tall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams), which is about a foot less than what Sachmis is currently stated to be at. Older vehicles, such as the M4 Sherman,(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman), pushed 9 feet. Additionally, the pilot of Sachmis is actually lying down in the machine, his posture mimicking that of a light cycle rider's:



When it comes to weigh distribution, four legs technically beat out two, as the pressure can be expressed across four surfaces rather than a simple duo. This means less pressure focused in one area. If it's too much, I can widen Sachmis' paws, which would make sense given the terrain she and her controller will be navigating through, with the paw-widening further decreasing her weight's impact on the surface (by increasing the paw's surface area) that she is walking upon. In all technical sense, this isn't even needed.

For a frame of reference, the M1 Abrams actually exerts less pressure on the ground than a civilian car, like a Ford Focus or even an H1 Hummer. This is a 60-70 ton MBT mind you.

Four-legged creations, by default, are going to be shorter than two-legged ones. It's why you don't see tigers that are six feet tall, yet they weigh hundreds of pounds.

And for the record, having a 50 foot machine that only weighs 60 tons makes little sense. The internal structure of that mech alone is going to be rather hefty; add on the armor and the weapons, and the weight increases. You may want to checked out this wikipedia article on the square-cube law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square-cube_law, since it will explain in detail what I'm getting at.

In terms of the defenses, I know the limits and capabilities of what I put into my sheet. I wouldn't do that if I didn't know what this stuff does.

Nexus Of Worlds Multiverse

Beta said
Everyone should read my guy's Abilities/Spells/etc. He can fly, cut people's limbs off, dodge multiple attacks per post, etc. He's kinda awesome.

Unsure if sarcastic or serious.